Back in the day when I built my first "real" layout I used Atlas #4's turnouts or snap switchs with the Atlas switch machines. For my current layout I have purchased some Atlas Code 83 Super-Flex track, some Atlas, and Peco #6 code 83 turnouts. I like the Peco turnouts and the Peco switch motors will work well in the foamboard. However, they are not cheap and I am not sure how well they will match up with the Atlas flex track. I need some input on the Atlas turnouts and switch machines. I do not want the machines to be visible on the layout. I would also like to power the frogs.
Thanks for your help.
ED
Ed,
I use Atlas code 83 turnouts and Tortoise slow motion switch machines. The Tortoise machines have aux contacts for powering the frog and work well. I can't advise you regarding foam board and these products as I do not use foam board. I still use "old fashioned" plywood and Homabed roadbed.
I am very happy with the Atlas code 83 turnouts and based on that would not spend the money on PECO or Walthers.
Sheldon
I've got a combination of Atlas and Peco turnouts. I use each manufacturer's switch machines with their turnouts.
I've gone through some effort to hide the Atlas switch machines. I've got one that I inverted and mounted underneath the turnout. Most of them are hidden under scenic covers made of plaster cloth. If Atlas really wanted to capture more market share, they would come up with a turnout with a hidden, completely integrated machine. Until then, well, my turnout preference is Peco. The machines disappear beneath the roadbed, and the whole package seems more solid and reliable, although I can't really fault Atlas on that. I have 50-year-old Atlas machines, salvaged from brass turnouts from my boyhood, that are still driving my turnouts today.
Atlas turnouts have plastic frogs. They can't be powered. Pecos do too, although the amount of plastic is much less.
You will need a capacitive discharge system for your Peco machines. The same device will make you happier with your Atlas machines, too, and will protect both from toggle switch failures. Get one. Trust me on this, even if you don't know me.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley Atlas turnouts have plastic frogs. They can't be powered. Pecos do too, although the amount of plastic is much less.
MisterBeasley, not true - only Atlas snap switches have plastic frogs. Atlas Custom Line turnouts have metal frogs and Peco makes two types, insulated and all metal versions of their turnouts.
Thanks Guys,
You always come through.
MisterBeasley, what is a captive discharge system? Would that be a stand along transformer strictly for powering switch machines?
How do the PECO turnouts look and match up with the Atlas track?
I understand what you mean about the Atlas switch machines. You would think that they would have come up with a below grade hidden machine by now.
Thanks Again.
Ed
Yeah, I was looking at the snap-switches.
My Peco turnouts (Code 100) match up fine with Atlas track. You do need to take care with the rail joiners, because the rail cross-sections don't match exactly. A bit of shimming may be necessary, and you've got to be careful to avoid kinks when attaching flex-track on a curve, but these issues are important with any tracklaying project.
A CD circuit goes between your power supply and your turnouts. You can build one yourself for a few dollars in parts, or you can buy them commercially. A "Snapper" is one of the commercial products. I think the store-bought ones come with power supplies. I run my turnouts off the AC supply from an old, old train transformer. The simplest form of the circuit is 2 capacitors and 2 resistors. Since I was using an AC supply, I added a bridge rectifier. It's a good "boy's first soldering project" for this hobby - you'll do far more complicated wiring and soldering in the years ahead, I assure you.
That's "capacitor discharge". Power for the twin coil switch machines comes from a big capacitor (bigger is better) recharged by a transformer rectifier.
Benefits:
1. A large capacitor will yield very high currents giving more positive switch machine action.
2. Longer life on the pushbutton switches used. The cap discharges down to zip in a moment. By the time you lift your finger off the pushbutton there is very little current flowing, which makes the contacts on the switch last longer.
Downside:
It takes some seconds for the capacitor to recharge. If you throw second turnout too soon, the cap will still be flat and the turnout won't throw. If you use a clever diode matrix to throw a bunch of switches at the same time, you will have to make the capacitor bigger. One turnout at 26 volts needs maybe 5000 microfarads, two turnouts doubles that, three turnouts triples it and so on.
A 26 volt transformer sold for furnace thermostats followed by a full wave rectifier will charge the cap. If you roll your own, remember that the capacitors have a plus and a minus terminal. Hooking them up backwards can make them explode in your face. The capacitors have a rated working voltage marked on the case. Exceeding the rated voltage can cause the cap to burst.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Atlas also makes a deluxe undertable switch machine, with extra contacts for powering the frog.
http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/Track/Trackphotos/0066.GIF
Doesn't seem to work under foam, though.
Most of the Atlas metal frogs have a hole on one side, or both. This is designed to have a screw run through it, then the wire used to power the frog is attached.
The Code 83 machines are fairly small, and have the option of hand-throwing as needed. Real power switches also have a machine on top.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
I have used Atlas turnouts over the years when I haven't built my own. Some Custom Line turnouts have metal frogs, some do not (almost all the older ones have plastic frogs). I'm not sure if all of Atlas code 83 Custom Line turnout production has metal frogs or not - the #4s would be the most suspect. In any case, the only practical way to attach a feeder wire to the metal frogs to make them live is with a screw. All attempts to solder a wire have met with disaster.
Using the Atlas switch machine under the benchwork has always been iffy for me because of their limited "power". The extra friction in the linkage creates problems. I have had the best results with under table mounting of Atlas switch machines using the Anderson link, or similar rotating linkages. The undertable switch machine made by Atlas does have more power and works well, but is limited to roadbed and benchwork thickness up to 1". Atlas switch machines do not have any auxiliary contacts. They have a set of contacts that can be added, or you can buy the Atlas Snap Relay to provide the contacts. The Snap Relay is basically an Atlas switch machine with contacts instead of a mechanical linkage. The Snap Relay is powered in parallel with the switch machine.
Mostly, I have used a variety of 3rd party 2 coil switch machines - Kemtron, Tru-Scale, NJ International, and Rix-Rax - with Atlas turnouts with excellent results. Again, I find the rotating linkages to be the easiest to install, especially after laying the turnout. Almost all 3rd party twin coil switch machines have at least one set of electrical contacts for powering the frog. I have one Tortoise in my parts box to try, but I'm sure I will use it with my handlaid turnouts instead of the Atlas because of the gentler motion.
Peco turnouts come in 2 varieties - Electro-frog and Insul-frog. The Electro-frog models already have live frogs, and I believe the Insul-frog models have plastic frogs. I haven't used Peco turnouts personally, and wouldn't consider an insulated frog anyway due to my tiny models of 19th Century prototypes, so I may have the info on the Insul-Frog wrong. As others have said, the Peco switch machine works well with Peco turnouts, and apparently few others do unless you remove the latching spring. I believe contacts are available for the Peco switch machine for an extra charge.
I consider a Capacitive Discharge Unit (CDU) essential for proper operation and longevity of twin coil switch machines and the associated components. You can build your own (I have) or buy the commercial unit (friends have). I personally would use 16VAC or less as the input to the CDU. The capacitors charge to the peak voltage, not the RMS voltage - which is the usual voltage figure given. 16 volts has a peak voltage of 22 volts - which means you can use 25 volt capacitors instead of 50 volt. And 22 volts is plenty to kick any twin coil machine I know of. The three big benefits of the CDU are:
There's nothing wrong with manual throws. I tend to favor a manual arrangement that uses slide switches because I insist on powering my frogs. And I prefer walk-around control, but without my clumsy 0-5-0 reach into the layout. So fascia mounted turnout controls work best for me, regardless of whether I use switch machines or manual linkages.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Thanks Fred.
You have given me a lot of info to digest.
I would use the Rix w/contacts over the Atlas machines. You can find them for $8-$9 if you shop around.They are out of stock right now though.