I have built 11 layouts since I started in 1968. All but the last one, consisted of 1/2" plywood, sandwiched with 1/2" Homasote and then cork roadbed. I have finally retired and am designing my next and probably last layout. My complaints with Homasote have been many. It's heavy, hard to find, expensive, dusty to cut and swells when painted, making joints difficult. My previous layout, a 24" x 18' switching layout used 1/2" plywood only. No cork either. I just used Atlas turnouts and flex track spiked directly to the painted plywood. Turned out to be much easier than expected. I kept a Dremel tool handy and pre-drilled the nail holes.
Reading recent MR & RMC magazines, I see that others are abandoning the traditional plywood/Homasote receipe as well. I've also seen cork glued directly to 2" foam sub-roadbed, using builders caulk to attach the trackwork to the cork. Does anybody have any experience with these newer ideas? Thanks - Bill
I tore down my first HO layout in about 1968, and my current one, started 4 years ago, is the first since then.
I've embraced all the new technologies. I used 2-inch pink construction foam on a wood frame for a base. I use Woodland Scenics foam roadbed, too. I attach the pink foam to the frame with Liquid Nails for Projects. I use the same stuff for roadbed-to-pink-foam, and for track-to-roadbed. (I will confess that I also used plain white glue, an Elmers clone, for roadbed and track sometimes.)
My only complaint is the short shelf life of the Liquid Nails once I open the tube, which I use in a caulking gun. If I don't keep using it, over a period of a month or two it hardens in the tube and has to be tossed. Only a few bucks for a big tube, though, so it's not too much of a loss. But, that's why I typically use white glue for the small stuff - it's not worth opening a new tube of caulk and then just having it go bad.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Once above the steel stud Westcott-pattern L-girder benchwork, my "sandwich" consists of (from the bottom up) thin plywood, thin foam (carved to roadbed contours where appropriate,) a cardstock track template and flex track. Specialwork is hand laid on wood ties over the cardstock. My adhesive of choice for the above is latex acrylic caulk, grey where it might be seen, any color elsewhere.
To put this in perspective, my layout space is a non-climate-controlled garage in the Dessicated Desert (it's unusually humid today, almost 15%!) and the annual temperature swing can top 100 degrees. In three years I've had zero problems with the above. I also seem to have better shelf life than Mister Beasley - one tube of Dap grey caulk survived a three month period of non-use in my caulk gun with only minor thickening up. The key, I believe, is that the tube is capped except when I'm actually spreading caulk.
A nice thing about steel risers - forming screwing flanges on top is a matter of seconds with tin snips and bending pliers, and you can screw up into the underside of the cookie-cut plywood with the little cap screws used for steel stud construction. Saves both time and money.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I have a small portable layout, so for added strength I used the foam over 1/2" plywood, that makes it so I can have some below grade scenery and not loose strength. I have had no trouble using cheap latex caulk to attach foam/plywood, cork/foam and track/cork. I use a fairly small hole in the tip and when I'm done I put a long (2") sheetrock screw into the hole, then take a piece of Saran Wrap or similar product, fold it several times so there are a number of layers. Put this over the end of the tip with the screw in place and secure it tightly with a rubber band. At times I have gone 3 or 4 months between uses and as soon as I pull the screw out the caulk comes out freely.
I think you'll find there are a lot of new techniques and many people mix the various types depending on what they are doing. Keep reading articles and these forums and try different things and see what you like and what works best for you. A small section of the layout or a seperate scene is a good way to try, but even on the final layout many folks tear out and redo as their skills improve.
Have fun,
Hi Mr. B. I have a question about using wood and foam in layout construction. Like you, I live in the Northeast. Since wood expands and contracts with the seasons and foam doesn't, does this pose any problems? Did you seal your wood parts first. I'm hoping to build a shelf layout with foam for lightness, and a wood base/frame to protect the fragile foam edges, but I'm interested to hear the experiences of those who've actually done so. TIA. Ken
ss122 Hi Mr. B. I have a question about using wood and foam in layout construction. Like you, I live in the Northeast. Since wood expands and contracts with the seasons and foam doesn't, does this pose any problems? Did you seal your wood parts first. I'm hoping to build a shelf layout with foam for lightness, and a wood base/frame to protect the fragile foam edges, but I'm interested to hear the experiences of those who've actually done so. TIA. Ken
Ken,
FWIW, I used pink foam with a 1" X 4"wood framework for part of my layout. It is in a garage in the middle of the desert and goes through some wide temperature extremes during the year without any noticeable problems. I did not seal the wood, but as you can guess, humidity is not much of a problem around here.[
John Timm
Thanks John for the quick answer. Even in a house with a dry basement and excellent perimeter drainage, the endogenous humidity in my part of upstate NY requires two humidifiers during the summer, but it's quite dry in the winter. Maybe I'm just compulsive ( well actually no maybe there) but slapping polyurethane on the wood frames and plywood base (for mounting switch linkages etc.) doesn't seem like that much work, I just wonder if it's really necessary in humid areas. Ken
The only worthwhile uses for homasote--and the original reasons, years ago, were (1) that it holds the track spikes used in handlaying well, and (2) it makes for a high-profile roadbed.
I've never bothered with it. Cork roadbed on open-grid benchwork created a fine ballast profile for me.
Midnight Railroader The only worthwhile uses for homasote--and the original reasons, years ago, were (1) that it holds the track spikes used in handlaying well, and (2) it makes for a high-profile roadbed. I've never bothered with it. Cork roadbed on open-grid benchwork created a fine ballast profile for me.
I totally agree. Homasote is one of those sacred cows in our hobby that won't die an honorable death.
desertdog Midnight Railroader The only worthwhile uses for homasote--and the original reasons, years ago, were (1) that it holds the track spikes used in handlaying well, and (2) it makes for a high-profile roadbed. I've never bothered with it. Cork roadbed on open-grid benchwork created a fine ballast profile for me. I totally agree. Homasote is one of those sacred cows in our hobby that won't die an honorable death. John Timm
John
Why should Homasote die? I have actually tried some of the competing materials, and find the traditional cookie cutter plywood and Homasote better suited to the type of layouts I build than the alternatives I have tried. Granted, each of the materials has its own sets of tool requirements to work it effectively. A jig saw, fine cut blades, vacuum cleaner, and benchwork which allows easy relocation (even if temporary) of joists and/or risers are the weapons of choice for plywood and Homasote. A thin shell scenery base works better with plywood/Homasote than other scenery structures. And has been mentioned, it is one of the best set of materials for handlaid track using spikes as fasteners.
When layouts get larger, the inefficiencies of cookie cutter become expensive. But so does foam. Which is why spline subroadbed/roadbed with shell scenery is often favored on larger layouts.
Cork on foam works well for flex track and commercial turnouts in the medium turn, and is acceptable for the long term if reasonably sealed. If not sealed (glued ballast and glued roadbed may be sufficient sealing), cork will dry out and crumble over the long term. That has been my consistent experience. Cork on foam doesn't need the carpentry tools that wood benchwork/plywood/Homasote do, but it does take some sort of tool set to carve the foam and cut the cork.
I have found foam is the quickest and easiest way to build a relatively flat layout, or a layout with a high density of track and/or structures. But if you already have the carpentry tools, I see little advantage, besides light weight, to foam for layouts with relatively large spaces for rolling terrain or many varied levels of track.
Why not suit the choice of benchwork, subroadbed, roadbed, and even track to the type of layout you are building instead of condemning particular choices? The same with scenery - different scenic base materials are better suited to certain types of scenery than others. One size just doesn't fit all real well.
just my thoughts and experiences, your choices
Fred W
fwright desertdog Midnight Railroader The only worthwhile uses for homasote--and the original reasons, years ago, were (1) that it holds the track spikes used in handlaying well, and (2) it makes for a high-profile roadbed. I've never bothered with it. Cork roadbed on open-grid benchwork created a fine ballast profile for me. I totally agree. Homasote is one of those sacred cows in our hobby that won't die an honorable death. John Timm John Why should Homasote die? I have actually tried some of the competing materials, and find the traditional cookie cutter plywood and Homasote better suited to the type of layouts I build than the alternatives I have tried. Granted, each of the materials has its own sets of tool requirements to work it effectively. A jig saw, fine cut blades, vacuum cleaner, and benchwork which allows easy relocation (even if temporary) of joists and/or risers are the weapons of choice for plywood and Homasote. A thin shell scenery base works better with plywood/Homasote than other scenery structures. And has been mentioned, it is one of the best set of materials for handlaid track using spikes as fasteners. When layouts get larger, the inefficiencies of cookie cutter become expensive. But so does foam. Which is why spline subroadbed/roadbed with shell scenery is often favored on larger layouts. Cork on foam works well for flex track and commercial turnouts in the medium turn, and is acceptable for the long term if reasonably sealed. If not sealed (glued ballast and glued roadbed may be sufficient sealing), cork will dry out and crumble over the long term. That has been my consistent experience. Cork on foam doesn't need the carpentry tools that wood benchwork/plywood/Homasote do, but it does take some sort of tool set to carve the foam and cut the cork. I have found foam is the quickest and easiest way to build a relatively flat layout, or a layout with a high density of track and/or structures. But if you already have the carpentry tools, I see little advantage, besides light weight, to foam for layouts with relatively large spaces for rolling terrain or many varied levels of track. Why not suit the choice of benchwork, subroadbed, roadbed, and even track to the type of layout you are building instead of condemning particular choices? The same with scenery - different scenic base materials are better suited to certain types of scenery than others. One size just doesn't fit all real well. just my thoughts and experiences, your choices Fred W
Fred,
I agree that one size does not fit all and if someone is comfortable with using Homasote, so be it. On the other hand, I see no real advantage and several disadvantages to using it in an era when there are viable substitutes.
The objections to Homasote are well-known. It is relatively hard to cut and certainly messy. A paper fibre-based product, it is subject to swelling with moisture unless you seal it properly, an extra step you don't have to take with foam. It also requires special tools as you point out. Finally, it is often hard to find.
So, unless you are handlaying track, which few of us do these days, I see no reason for it and I suspect that the next generation of modelers will not even have heard of it.
For my track roadbed, I am a huge proponent of Masonite spline roadbed topped with cork. For my N-scale layout, I got all of the roadbed for the lower level from two sheets of 1/8" Masonite. At $6 a sheet and with near zero waste, it has proven its value for me many times over. I will actually be using 1/2" Homasote for my staging level since I will just cover all the benchwork with the stuff and tack the track in place. However, there is just too much waste for me with the cookie cutter approach to roadbed using plywood/Homasote/cork. One day I will try foam (maybe on the upper level?) since you can get the roadbed and the scenery base from the same material. Jamie
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desertdogFred, I agree that one size does not fit all and if someone is comfortable with using Homasote, so be it. On the other hand, I see no real advantage and several disadvantages to using it in an era when there are viable substitutes. The objections to Homasote are well-known. It is relatively hard to cut and certainly messy. A paper fibre-based product, it is subject to swelling with moisture unless you seal it properly, an extra step you don't have to take with foam. It also requires special tools as you point out. Finally, it is often hard to find. So, unless you are handlaying track, which few of us do these days, I see no reason for it and I suspect that the next generation of modelers will not even have heard of it.John Timm
From what I am reading in the forums there is a resurgence of interest in handlaid track, particularly turnouts. Fast Tracks and Central Valley kits have helped many overcome their reservations about their of skills and/or lack of ability. Unless you used glued construction for handlaid track, foam and cork are fairly unsatisfactory materials for handlaying.
Actual personal experiences: I have never had my Homasote swell or cause any problems with my track. I glued it to the plywood subroadbed, usually with white glue. This includes moving the layout from coastal Oregon to Pensacola and Miami Florida, and to Indiana. Only Pensacola and Indiana had air conditioning. My Homasote was never painted or treated. OTOH, every bit of cork roadbed (4 different batches) had dried out and crumbled, although sometimes it took a decade to do so.
Cutting Homasote is easiest with a knife blade in your jig saw, although these blades are not always easy to find. Because my layouts were small enough, I simply laid the sheet Homasote directly on sheet plywood, and cookie-cuttered both together with a jig saw with a fairly fine blade. I don't consider a jig saw a "special tool", but then I grew up when power drills and circular and jig saws were considered part of a "normal" tool box. In fact, my parents' wedding gift to me (age 21) was a Craftsman drill and jig saw. The jig saw I still have and use.
Yes, cutting Homasote is dusty. And I have learned foam is just as bad, especially with the static cling of the flummers. Of course, investing in a "special tool", aka hot wire cutter, can reduce the mess of cutting foam.
Unless you live in a colder climate, obtaining either foam or Homasote is not as simple as going down to your HD or Lowe's. Both have to be sought out.
You are certainly right about one thing. It's been years since an MR project layout used Homasote, so the younger modelers may well be ignorant of its qualities and when it might be a useful material. Right now, I see foam portrayed as the sacred cow, that should be replacing Homasote everywhere but for the stubborness of old geezers like me (all of 55).
In my current test layout, I am using 2" foam on 1/4" plywood, with Homasote on top for roadbed. I did this to keep the layout fairly light. A drawback I didn't anticipate in my planning was the 2 -3/4" thickness of the plywood/foam/Homasote instead of 1" for plywood/Homasote that I am used to. I have a 20" long section where one track is directly over another hidden track. In the past, I simply made the separation 4" rail to rail, and would have enough clearance. With cookie-cuttered foam, this practice won't work. I will have to develop another solution.
my thoughts, your choices
I agree with Fred.
All my layouts prior to my current one used plywood/homasote roadbed. I never had any problems with the homasote swelling or changing shape. The trains were also dead quiet and mounting the undertable switch machines and such was a snap.
My current layout is foam. While definitely easy for scenery and lightweight, it's noisy as heck, and mounting the under track gear takes some engineering. And the foam fuzzies are worse then homasote dust.
I'm going to return to my beloved homasote for the next layout.
Nick
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On my third layout in 43 years, started 3 years ago, I went with an open grid with 1/2" plywood with a cork roadbed. I'm using styrofoam in the open areas of the grid for shaping the scenery. I decided to nail the cork with brad nails since I didn't know how long the layout will remain together and not knowing the longevity of cork placed with an adhesive. I use Atlas flex track and on this layout and instead of leaving the nails in the track permamently I tacked the track down temporarily with nails for alignment, making sure the nail head was below the rail head but able to be removed later, tested for derailment issues, etc., used push pins along the rails to make sure the track was in full conatct with the cork roadbed, secured the track to the cork with a super glue every inch or so, removed the nails, weathered and ballasted the track. Then again I like a layout that I can lean on and has some human weight carrying characteristics while I working on it, especially in the early stages. I just kept picturing myself putting a nice dip in the roadbed area with my hand while supporting myself when reaching for something. Granted the layout is designed for my ideal reach either standing in the aisles or by access areas, but there is always a spot that's just out of normal reach or when you just don't feel like walking around or crawling under the table to get to a better access spot. At my age I tend to use the grid framework to grab onto to move around under the table when wiring, etc. and for support when getting into an access panel area. It works for me and the arthritis in my back. To each his own though.
In Germany, we don´t really have the option of Homasote vs. foam board, as Homasote or any other LDF (low density fibre) material is not readily available. Most of the modellers I know use the old cork roadbed over plywool method and foam board as a substitute for the wire mesh-plaster cloth method for building scenery. Personally, I am quite happy with the cork roadbed on plywood. Cork tiles are fairly inexpensive, readily available, not much of a mess to work with. The plywood is a solid base for switch machines and if you are daring enough not to use "oversized" lumber for your benchwork, the construction is sufficiently lightweight.