If I remember right there was L-girder and open grid. What is the differences between these two types of layout framing and is there any other types? I planned on using just a basic frame with a 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch plywood baseboard but was then recommended to go with a foam base as I plan on having a river (rather long one too as my newest idea dictates). Either way I chose on going the plan was to use adhesive to lay the tracks instead of spiking.
Open Grid is basic 'box frame' construction with the joists/girders attached on their edges, Sort of like basic residential construction.
'L' Girder has long girders(typically 1 by 4 material) constructed with a small girder(1 by 2' material) glued/screwed to the edge to make a 'L'. The joists sit on top of this 'L' and are attached with screws from underneath, through the lip of the 'L' Girder. You can position the joists at any angle using this system.
Both system have advantages/disadvantages - Use what 'works' for you. The foam can be glued to the framework with 'foam safe' glue like PL300. Our club layout uses basic 'box' or 'open grid' construction with a minumim of 2" of foam on the top. The joists are on 16" centers. For track laying(roadbed as well), cheap cauk works well. Use a putty knife to spread it on super thin and 'T' pins to hold it in alignment until the cauk is set(maybe 20 minutes). We also used a liquid white 'contact' cement to lay flex track - both allow track to be 'popped' out of there was a mistake.
Myself, I used 'L' Girders for the main part of the layout, with 1/2" plywood for the subroadbed. That works as well.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Another method (If you are doing a fairly narrow self railroad) is to take thin plywood, glue 1' or 2' on the top and as support, using large shelving brackets. For the ultimate light weight solution, drop the plywood, or just attack a thin cardboard or posterboard. Personally, though, I'd go with the plywood/foam combination. Not doing a shelf? It can still work, with minimal framing on the edges...
OB
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot Visit my blog! http://becomingawarriorpoet.blogspot.com
jrbernier Open Grid is basic 'box frame' construction with the joists/girders attached on their edges, Sort of like basic residential construction. 'L' Girder has long girders(typically 1 by 4 material) constructed with a small girder(1 by 2' material) glued/screwed to the edge to make a 'L'. The joists sit on top of this 'L' and are attached with screws from underneath, through the lip of the 'L' Girder. You can position the joists at any angle using this system. Both system have advantages/disadvantages -
Both system have advantages/disadvantages -
Jim, would open grid be better if the layout is to be built in sections or modules?
tony22 Jim, would open grid be better if the layout is to be built in sections or modules?
I went with open grid on my sectional layout.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
Ok this is just thinking aloud, but would it work if i built an L-girder perimiter of like a verticle 1x2" piece and a 1x2" horizontal piece on the bottom, attached some cross braces with either 1x2 or 1x3 so the beams are parallel to the bottom of the girder every 18-24 inches and then glued some 2" thick foam to the girder? My thinking is it would be light, strong enough to hold up the foam and stuff, which with the exception of one leg of my U shape would only be 12" wide, and then the verticle face piece of the L-girder becomes my framing and my fascia board. I also plan on having a pull out work board and tool storage area made from cabinet brackets, and either a hide away drawer for either the MRC DC throttle or the Digitrax Zephry DCC throttle. Not sure which one to get yet because I like all that DCC has to offer but I really only need DC control. Also including a manual turntable and manual turn outs to keep things more involved since it's a small layout and a friggen 3 year old will be able to reach all areas, as long as they stand on a stool. The wider leg is 2 foot wide split into too, half for layout and half for staging tracks with a back drop seperating the two.
Tony,
For a modular or 'sectional' layout, open grid(box) construction will be the best.
As far as using 1x2 material for the L Girder? The L Girder is the piece that runs the long length of the layour. The web needs to be strong enough to not 'sag'. I used 1x3 material after originally using 1x4 material on a previous layout. The current layout has a pair of 1x3 L Girders running 25' down a wall with only 4 attachment points t ohold up the layout. 1x3 joists that vary from 24" to 48" are attached to the top of them every 16". I can climb up on the layout - it is rock solid. I have another pair of L Girders that run down another wall for almost 20'. It has been up since 1987-88 and there is no sag or other structural problems.
I am currently constructing "modules" for my room layout. I went a little more modern and made I-beams from exterior luan and 1x2s for the stiffeners. I used the tablesaw and made a 1/4" x 1/4" channel and used the Gorrilla glue to assemble. I'm staying at 8' sections, 2 I-beams with I-beams also used to make the boxes. I went every 16" with the cross beam, and the beams are 4" tall. Each section is under 5lbs but can be supported at only the ends without sagging. I will set my laser on the center, support it at the ends, and start piling on the weight until it starts to deflect and post the weight. I started with taller beams at 4 1/2" and could sit on it. The other advantage to doing this is being able to make longer lengths simply by staggering the flanges. I am planning on doing this for the second deck as long as I can keep the profile acceptable with 18' in length. This is also much more stable than it's counterpart in wood, resisting expanding/contracting and crown/bowing/ cupping.
A couple pics to show what I've done. I grabbed firewood, so weights are estimated, measures are actual. I was afraid to add any more weight as I only have some temp legs attached at the moment and I would rather not test the brad nails. The est weight of the wood is 100#, stacked in the center and the actual deflection is almost 1/8".
I plan on using risers with spline roadbed, but there is no reason I couldn't put plywood or foam on top of this. I am going to do that for the yard areas.
tinman1 I am currently constructing "modules" for my room layout. I went a little more modern and made I-beams from exterior luan and 1x2s for the stiffeners. I used the tablesaw and made a 1/4" x 1/4" channel and used the Gorrilla glue to assemble. I'm staying at 8' sections, 2 I-beams with I-beams also used to make the boxes. I went every 16" with the cross beam, and the beams are 4" tall. Each section is under 5lbs but can be supported at only the ends without sagging. I will set my laser on the center, support it at the ends, and start piling on the weight until it starts to deflect and post the weight. I started with taller beams at 4 1/2" and could sit on it. The other advantage to doing this is being able to make longer lengths simply by staggering the flanges. I am planning on doing this for the second deck as long as I can keep the profile acceptable with 18' in length. This is also much more stable than it's counterpart in wood, resisting expanding/contracting and crown/bowing/ cupping.
So Tom, are you saying that the "I" part of the I-beam is 1/4"x4" luan, and that there's a 1/4" channel down the center of 1x2s for the top and bottom parts of the "I"? How do you attach the internal cross-member I-beams to the outer framework pieces? If you could post a picture of that joining area it would be great. Thanks.
You are correct about the I-beams other than I cut the luan at 3 1/2". I made 3 I-beams for each section. 2 for the outer beams and the third was cut into pieces. On the pics above, the pieces were cut at 16" on the chop-saw. I then cut 1/4" off all 4 ends of the 1x2s so that there was 1/4" of luan protruding past. I used another piece of the 1x2 with the channel and cut it into 3" pieces to fit in the web of the beam. I marked every 16" down the length of the outer beams, used some more gorilla glue and I used a brad gun to pin the pieces together until the glue expanded and cured.
The piece to the left is the cross brace, and the part to the right is the rail. I hope its clear enough, I was holding it up with one hand and taking a pic with my wifes phone with the other. My Q phone went belly up,....again.
If you do this and use Gorrilla glue, remember , the parts must be fit snug and be held together with a little pressure. The glue expands, forcing itself into the woodgrain, but will also seperate the parts if not held together, Wood glue should work just as well for this.
Wow, it's sort of a home-made version of Mianne benchwork. Nice.
I'm not familiar with the benchwork you are speaking of, but any I-joist construction would be very similar. I have used wood I-joists as well as white/yellow pine in building lots of homes and to say the I-joists have alot of advantages. These are just scaled down a bit. They stay straight, are light, cheap to make , and don't take much time to make. I can double the joists to get more strength if needed without increasing the height. You can also cantilever these without fear of sagging over time. They are just pretty nice.
I didn't do it, using a combination of box and L-girders instead, but I considered making the fame sections entirely from 2-inch foam - girders and sub bed. I proto typed one and it was incredibly strong yet light as a feather. Cost was the deal breaker.
My railroad is outside and even though located in Phoenix (desert), we do get some rain from time to time. Obviously water damage would not impact a foam framed structure nor would heat. Everything was pre-painted to block UV issues (and I do this on all the wood sections I build anyway).