Immediate Help Needed Please: #5 Turn Outs/ Big Boys

[Capt. Grimek]

Hi Guys n' Gals, I have a ton of #5 Walther's Code 83 turn outs in my (track plans) yard ladder. Does anyone know from experience if an Athearn Genesis Big Boy and Challenger will negotiate those #5s without derailing, binding and other issues? I can't find the divergent radius on the 5s listed with any consistency (and be sure how to apply that info.) Athearn tells me on the phone that these locos will negotiate 18" radius curves but other Athearn doucumentation states 22". I will be coming off of a 24" drill track and they run fine on that, into a ladder full of #5s. The Walther's catalog states the # 5's dimensions as: 10 3/8"s total length. Points to frog: 5-21/32" (143.7 mm) Frog angle: 11 degrees 26 min. Athearn (I was rather disgusted to find) couldn't tell me a thing about turn outs. Walthers is often helpful but doesn't get back to you for days (and it's the weekend) and if you're not home, leave a non informational response on an answering machine so you have to start the process all over again! So... if you are personally running Athearn Genesis Big Boys and Challengers on Code 83 Shinohara #5s please let me know?! Otherwise, I'm trying desperately to figure out another approach to my 130' turntable and roundhouse but I hate to have to change things TOO much or try this without being able to return some turn outs. I really don't have much room for changing anything other than to a couple of 6es and losing a fair amount of yard length which I'd like to avoid. Many,many, Thanks!!!

[jrbernier]

  It should work OK, but those big engines will look sort of strange.  Myself, I use #6 turnouts for most applications.   Considering that you are using pretty tight 24" radius curves to start with, the #5's should be fine. 

  BTW, the average 'rail radius' for a #5 is about 26"(per the NMRA RP's).  However, the big issue with turnouts are the reverse curve built into them and how much tangent track there is between the curves created by your yard ladder.

  Why not 'temp' spike down a #5 yard ladder with a 24" radius curve leading up to it and 'test' it first?

Jim Bernier

[Capt. Grimek]

Thank you Jim, for responding so quickly! My track planner (obviously) thought they'd work, but he's been very seriously ill and hadn't wanted to hassle him. I received doubting comments from some club members yesterday when I asked them to suggest alternate routes to the R.H./T.T. so got (very) concerned! I will go ahead and tack some down in a mock up ladder and approach. My other radii are 28" and 30" mains but the drill track (my only way into the T.T./R.H.) is 24" and will be almost entirely hidden track (behind, not under) taken at slow yard limit speeds. I have an experienced and most generous friend (a forum member, in fact) who will help me! With any luck he has #5s on his layout but don't recall and have contacted him to ask as it's been a few months since I ran these locos over there... I'm grateful that you responded as you are certainly one of the more/most experienced folks here and as a shop owner (?) if I remember correctly knows these products well and has a no nonsense approach to things technical. If anyone has the Athearn Genesis Big Boys/Challengers running through #5s on your yard ladders (or elsewhere) it would be appreciated to hear and maybe see (pics) more feedback, too. Next week my good friend and I will attempt a mock up (with any luck permanent start to the yard) track laying session but it would be great for both of us to have feedback before beginning. Thanks again, Jim

[betamax]

Mine has no issues going through a #6 crossover. Don't have any #5 switches to test the theory with. Remember, the Athearn version is not a real articulated engine, as both engines pivot. The real thing only had a pivot on the front engine.

According to John Armstrong in his book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation", the closure rail radius of a #5 switch is 26".

Since the Athearn version is claimed to handle 18 to 22" curves, it looks like there would be little problem here.

[selector]

I believe you will have no problems.  My Lionel Challenger, which should have very similar operating specs as the one you have, had no trouble whatsoever with the "long" EZ-Track turnouts available to me in early 2005.  They would be something like #5+ turnouts.  The Big Boy is a bit of a question, however.  I would be uncomfortable saying that it would be okay on a true #5.

-Crandell

[Capt. Grimek]

Thank you guys! Walthers called back with 43" and 26" for radius on #5s Walthers/Shinohara Code 83s. Athearn didn't know nuthin' from nuthin'. except that they said the Big Boy would handle 18" radius even though other online quotes have said 22". That's why I'm afraid to trust published specs on locos and turn outs unless I can see the same info. duplicated 3 out of three places! (or photographic proof positive). I guess we'll go ahead and lay a mock up/possible permanent yard ladder and see what happens unless we get a better brainstorm/approach. Here's hoping. It's a pain getting big steam to work on small/medium layouts but I'm not going to quit now! Oh yes, betamax, I ran my B.B. and Challenger through a number 6 double crossover yesterday and that worked fine at yard speeds anyway...

[twhite]

I've got some #5 turnouts in my yard, and my Genesis Challenger has no problems with them at all.  In fact, all of my many articulateds go through them with no problem, including my Yellowstones, and we're talking mostly brass here, with prototypical articulation (only front set of drivers articulating).   True, as they're going through, there is some un-prototypical overhang, but it doesn't last very long, so I can live with it 

Tom

[Capt. Grimek]

Ah! Thanks Tom! That's what I'm looking for, an onsite, eyewitness report! My overhang on the 24" seems to be approx. 1/2" at the cab which I can live with easily. I just heard back from my friend and he does indeed have #5s in his yard so I'm heading over there this afternoon for a final test and then I should be able to start laying track on my layout! I really appreciate your response here. It's more than comforting! By the way, if I remember correctly we are/were both professional musicians and if you're into it, I'd love to hear about your performing (recording?) career. I was a student under Thad Jones (and occasionally his bros.) in the '70s and played in a big band under his direction. My wife and I had an Americana/folk duo/band for 20 yrs. and have recorded and performed some train songs. Anyway, thanks again for the #5s report.

[wjstix]

If you avoid a No.5 S-curve, you should be OK. A No.5 is equivalent to a 26" radius curve in HO IIRC. My old layout had a few No.5's, and a Life-Like 2-8-8-2 would go thru em OK. 

[Capt. Grimek]

Stix, thanks. I ran through many #5s today and although the B.B. does an interesting little "shimmy shake" it did well with a 12-13 car freight train even in reverse. It didn't like curved #7 1/2 turn outs in reverse though. My friend added some weight to the rear truck and it behaved better so I'll experiment with that as I've got two #8 curved turn outs on my track plan. The Challenger was completely cooperative. I totally forgot to bring my shorty 60' Rivarossi passenger cars to try backing up through the 24" radius into the #5s but I think they'll do ok plus I have a #6es alternate route for them if need be. So... thanks to you guys and my friend, I'm ready to start gluing down yard cork and laying the lst ladder! It's been months of bench work so I'm more than ready to run (part of) a railroad!

[Capt. Grimek]

Yes, good reminder, thanks David. I'll lay out my gauge on the bench top yard area by my stack of turn outs right now. When I go down to the hardware store to buy a gallon of white glue for the sheet cork, I'll note what styrene strip sizes they have in stock, as well. I'm thinking of using yellow carpenter's glue for the sheet cork in the yard and white glue for the roadbed for possibly easier removal. Anything wrong with using yellow glue for everything? Will it's color show through ballasting?