Hi all-
I have a pond prepped and ready to fill and I found WS offers at least 2 types of water. One seems to be simply poured from a bottle, the other is pellets that need to be heated (?). I've never used either of these and am wondering the pros/cons. My pond is fairly small (roughly 9x3 inches) so I don't think I'd need much. The pellets seem interesting since I'm assuming I can save what I don't use for another pond later.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
I've never used the WS stuff. From reading posts here and elsewhere, the WS water products result in a somewhat soft surface that scratches easily and is difficult to keep looking like new. Instead, I've used Envirotex Light. It is a 2-part epoxy. I get mine at the A.C. Moore arts and crafts store. It's not cheap, but if you go to www.acmoore.com and poke around, you'll find a coupon for 40-50% off one single item.
Here's my pond:
The key to good-looking water is preparing the surface before doing the pours. Yes, pours, not pour. Multiple thin applications work much better than a single thick one.
This thread ran a couple of months ago, while I was doing this pond.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/137706.aspx?PageIndex=1
In particular, I'd advise following the links to Joe Fugate's tutorials. His suggestion about adding a bit of color to the epoxy mix is another good way to improve your water modelling a lot with just a small change in procedure.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have used the pellets and I have really good luck with it , but on my current layout I used clear poly eurathane and I have been very happy with it.
I'll second what Mr. B. said.
Joe Fugate's Scenery clinic. The section on modeling water begins at the bottom of page 4.
I have used the Woodland Scenics liquid. It is a little rubbery when hardened, but I have not had any problems yet. It's about 3 years old. I add a VERY SMALL (a couple of drops) amount of color to the water. Most color is applied to the bed before placing the water.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I will second EnviroTex. I used the WS Realistic Water, and didn't care for it. The surface is a little to soft for my liking.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
My two cents worth. I used Polyurethane and am happy with the results. You pour it in separate applications leaving plenty of time in between for it to harden. Once it hardens it is extremely hard and durable. Buy it in Home Depot or Lowe's in all size cans, it is probably the least inexpensive of the lot.
One caution make absolutely sure the surface is level and there is no possible way it can leak through any tiny holes.
You can use a carpenter's level but I found that a large round marble works the best.
I thought my river bed was tight since I caulked all the joints but the Poly found a way out in the corners and I had to run around and find drip cans to catch it. Also the carpenter's level could not overcome slight warping of the plywood base on one corner and I wound up with 1/2" water in one corner which took much longer to dry and 1/8" water on the rest of the river. The Poly did level itself so the next pour was not a problem.
Also make sure the area is very clean from dust, foam, ballast, etc. and find a way to cover it after the pour so that nothing settles on the fresh Poly.
Good luck
Doc
I used two-part epoxy resin. Probably similar to envirotex. Poured it in three different coloured layers.
Mike
Modelling the UK in 00, and New England - MEC, B&M, D&H and Guilford - in H0
I like your results very much, Mike. What did you use to colour your "water"? I also used a two-part epoxy, but the instructions caution about mixing any water in with it, so I felt that water-based paints were out.
-Crandell
Crandell - funny you should ask that I thoroughly read the manufacturer's instructions and they stated their product can be coloured with acrylic paint, but test first. [which i did ages ago with some brownish puddles I made for my diorama]
I assumed that since acrylic paint is water-based that it would be possible to dilute it with water to help it flow. Wrong! Mixing it with water made a concoction that looks remarkably like ice. Actually "mixing" is the wrong word because they refused to mix.
Anyway - adding acrylic paint in moderation has done no harm at all. I can post more pics somewhere if you like.
I'll third Envirotex Lite.Great for slow, wide rivers or streams.
Terry
Terry in NW Wisconsin
Queenbogey715 is my Youtube channel
I also used acrylics to mix with my Envirotex. I used about a drop of paint (which doesn't actually drip, so you have to imagine it) in a mix of 1 ounce of each of the 2 components. In this first-pour shot, I used a bit of blue and a bit of black to get a dark, cloudy look for the bottom of the stream, which was also done with blue and black on the stream bed:
My subsequent pours were more green and brown, and not as dark. What this does is get rid of the "clear as glass" look that so many layout ponds have. I was looking at a number of water models over the past couple of weeks at a show and on a layout tour, and most of them were just clear pours. As Mike pointed out over on Trainboard, the water looks much more realistic if the color comes from the water itself, rather than just from the painted streambed.
Here's a later photo of the finished stream:
When you look into a real pond, the image gets fuzzier and fuzzier as the water gets deeper. By adding a bit of paint, you cloud the water and reduce its opacity just a bit, which really improves the illusion of depth.
Superb job, MrB It lives!
I much prefer Environtex Lite for water. It dries hard and clean to the touch. The WS products I have seen used were always rubbery and not very realistic. BTW, I used a few drops [very few] of blue/green food coloring mixed in the Environtex Lite to color it. Add a drop at a time, because you don't want much color. Build it up with several pours -- not over 1/8 inch at a time. It will be level and glass smooth, so it's not really for running water or waves. However, by soaking bits of aquarium filter material in it and adding them downstream from rocks and falls, it does resemble foaming water. My waterfall was made by stretching Angel Hair from top to bottom and pouring several coats of Environtex down over it. I think it is very realistic for falling water.
I used WS Realistic water with a very faint blue green applied over the ground goop. I then added WS water effects for roughness. Soon I will have more to show.
Sue
Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.
Mike, no, that's fine, I saw your how-I-did-it elsewhere, but must not have remarked on your tinting method. I appreciate your response, and will attempt to give it a go to "upgrade" my own water over the holidays.
I take it you don't mean the cheap acrylic craft paints at department stores, but something else? Or are they the $0.99 small plastic bottles of artist's acrylics?
Thanks for your help.
I just used cheap bargain store tube acrylics
I have used both WS products, and let me say that I would NEVER use those pellets again. I used them to fill a small pond on an N scale layout. I followed the directions, and you have to get them VERY HOT to melt them. Then, when poured, it cools quickly and will not look right along the shore line unless it is reheated with a heat gun as it flows. When coolk, it has a unrealistic yellow tint to it. Finally, and this was the killer, if you have much temperature fluctuation in your layout room season to season it will crack over time. It can (theoreticly) be fixed by heating it with a heat gun, but on a completed scene this is sure to melt or burn the surrounding scenery (don't ask me how I know that this IS TRUE). Long stroy short, don't use them.
The realistic water, on the other hand, works great. I use it with the water effects to make very real looking waves and I am very impressed with the ease of use and the look of this product.
Ron
Owner and superintendant of the N scale Texas Colorado & Western Railway, a protolanced representaion of the BNSF from Fort Worth, TX through Wichita Falls TX and into Colorado.
Check out the TC&WRy on at https://www.facebook.com/TCWRy
Check out my MRR How-To YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/c/RonsTrainsNThings
I used the WS Realistic Water to model water in an open top water tank. What a mess! This stuff NEVER really hardens, seems to attract dust, and worst of all seems to absorb anything that falls into it. I hadn't noticed, but a piece of trim fell into the water tank from an adjacent building structure. By the time I noticed the missing trim piece and started looking for it, I found that it was about halfway submerged into the long since cured WS Realistic Water!! The water also seems to have absorbed some of the dark paint applied to the bottom and sides of the tank as well as the dust that has fallen on the surface. It is so bad now that my water tank looks like it is filled with mud! I just hope I'll be able to dig this junk out and start over with a better product.
Hornblower
Mr B., your pond is as realistic as it gets. One question. Does the envirotex create an odor when applying? I've got all kinds of allergies.
Thanks
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
superbe Mr B., your pond is as realistic as it gets. One question. Does the envirotex create an odor when applying? I've got all kinds of allergies.
Sorry to hear about the allergies. No animals for me, and I'm developing a reaction to nuts, too.
Envirotex Lite has no particular odor at all. I read somewhere, probably here, that the original Envirotex did smell, but the newer Lite formulation does not. I timed my original pours so that I could open windows if necessary, but there was no problem with odor at all from this stuff.
Likewise, I've been using Bragdon Foam for rock castings. This is another 2-part liquid mix that hardens up, and I was able to work with that in a closed-up basement without ill effects or any annoying odors. For both of these products, the individual components don't smell much at all, and I haven't noticed any odor during or after the curing process, either.
MisterBeasleyI've never used the WS stuff. From reading posts here and elsewhere, the WS water products result in a somewhat soft surface that scratches easily and is difficult to keep looking like new. Instead, I've used Envirotex Light. It is a 2-part epoxy. I get mine at the A.C. Moore arts and crafts store. It's not cheap, but if you go to www.acmoore.com and poke around, you'll find a coupon for 40-50% off one single item. Here's my pond: The key to good-looking water is preparing the surface before doing the pours. Yes, pours, not pour. Multiple thin applications work much better than a single thick one. This thread ran a couple of months ago, while I was doing this pond. http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/137706.aspx?PageIndex=1 In particular, I'd advise following the links to Joe Fugate's tutorials. His suggestion about adding a bit of color to the epoxy mix is another good way to improve your water modelling a lot with just a small change in procedure.
I agree- I used Joe Fugate's tutorials on modeling my pond using Envirotex Lite and (doing it correctly) I wouldn't use anything else.
Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.
Daniel G.
A member of our HO scale club used the Woodland Scenics pellets a couple of years ago and the results were horrible. First, he overheated one batch and it turned dark yellow. After the water was poured it began to crack and look like the surface of a frozen lake.
I used painted plaster, with 3 coats of water-based high gloss urethane applied with a brush. Very easy to do and very durable, and no need to worry about leaks or long drying times.
Here's a link to some more pictures and info: Finally, the "Pictures at 11:00", or quick, Noah, get the boat...
Wayne
I used WS Realistic Water about seven years ago when I 'poured' Bullard's Bar Reservoir on my MR. I haven't had any trouble with it, I poured it in about three 1/8" deep separate pours, allowing about 36 hours for it to 'set' between pourings. I will say that had I known about Environtex at the time, I would probably have used that, seeing several of the photos here. But I don't really feel like tearing out the lake at this time.
But it works for me. However, the WS DOES have to set up a long time between pours.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!