Most of my track is flex track on pink foam over a plywood subroadbed. I have a new section that I want to try handlaying track on but there is no room (vertically) for homasote or pine roadbed over plywood as I see normally done. Will it work to put the wood ties directly on Birch plywood and then spike the track down? Is plywood to hard for spikes?
Thanks
Bruce
brucec12 Most of my track is flex track on pink foam over a plywood subroadbed. I have a new section that I want to try handlaying track on but there is no room (vertically) for homasote or pine roadbed over plywood as I see normally done. Will it work to put the wood ties directly on Birch plywood and then spike the track down? Is plywood to hard for spikes? Thanks Bruce
You can, yes.
But I'm a little confused as to how you're going to phyiscally get in and handlay the track if you don't have enough vertical clearance for 1/4" of roadbed. How wil you manipulate the tools, etc.?
I tried handlaying a turnout directly on plywood, with no ties, and the spikes were easy to drive, although I don't know what type of plywood it was - fairly light in colour, and smooth, with no knots and no visible grain.
Some plywoods can be too hard for driving spikes, but it sounds as if you already have the plywood in place - why not try to drive a spike into it without a tie? I am curious, though, as how you intend to drive spikes if your available vertical clearance is so tight.
Wayne
Sorry I was not clear. I have plenty of room above the track for working on it. The problem is that to connect to the rest of the layout with the desired grade, I can't have the extra thickness of homasote or pine roadbed on top of the plywood in this area.
I guess I need to buy some spikes and try it out!
My experience is the glue layers in plywood are so hard that track nails bend over rather than driving home. I remember having to drill holes in the plywood to get the track to nail down. Spikes are smaller and are easier to bend than track nails and so I would expect just as much trouble with the plywood glue layers.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Quote: Most of my track is flex track on pink foam over a plywood subroadbed. I have a new section that I want to try handlaying track on but there is no room (vertically) for homasote or pine roadbed over plywood as I see normally done. Will it work to put the wood ties directly on Birch plywood and then spike the track down? Is plywood to hard for spikes? unquote
You don't mention a scale or gauge - it does make a difference based on my experiences.
In my experience, most plywood will have some hard spots in the surface grain that will curl spikes. If the spikes reach the glue layer, you will curl the vast majority of your spikes. I curled more spikes than I would normally tolerate spiking into a piece of redwood roadbed for a display shelf, just hitting the hard spots in the grain or where I used too much full-strength white glue holding the ties down.
But all this begs the question - do you need spikes to reach into the roadbed? I would say in S and O that the answer is no; the ties have sufficient thickness and bearing surface to be a good enough anchor by themselves. But in HO and smaller, after the tie tops have been sanded to ensure an even surface, there isn't enough thickness and bearing surface for the spikes to be anchored sufficiently without penetrating the roadbed. So in HO and smaller, a spikeable roadbed is needed if using wood ties.
The next question that makes a difference is what size spikes are you using? HO scale size and enlongated spikes with scale heads are available from Proto87 stores. Micro-Engineering micro spikes are somewhere around 1.5-2X scale size - and would be the largest I would consider in HO. The smaller spikes will not split the ties so frequently, look much better, and don't penetrate the roadbed so far.
Is it possible to use a taper to match the height of the areas? IIRC, Homabed is available in 1/8" thickness as well as 1/4", as is doorskin - another highly thought of roadbed material. How smooth is your plywood roadbed surface? Whether you sand the ties and/or the roadbed, a smooth flat surface to lay the rails is needed. Glue for the ties should be diluted and used reasonably sparingly.
just my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
You could glue the rails instead of spiking. I used Walther's Goo years ago and it worked fine.
Enjoy
Paul
Back in the 1960s I handlaid some track (rail and ties) directly onto plywood. It was rather tedious (even though I was a teenager then) and usually subject to a 50% spike failure rate. It was difficult also to avoid crushing ties. Do yourself a favor and lay the track on homasote. It makes handlaying a pleasure.
Mark
My FIRST thought was that of making that section a real sounding board once ballasted.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
brucec12 Sorry I was not clear. I have plenty of room above the track for working on it. The problem is that to connect to the rest of the layout with the desired grade, I can't have the extra thickness of homasote or pine roadbed on top of the plywood in this area.
I guess I am confused. Foam is normally 2' thick. A plywood/homasote sandwich is normally 1" thick. you could go from foam to plywood/homasote and still have an inch to spare.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Absolutely it's possible. We've handlaid lots of track directly onto plywood (in yard and complicated junction areas) and pine spline.
Keep a really good grip on the spike with your pliers and once you get the hang of it, there's no problem at all driving spikes into plywood.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Shouldn't pose much of a problem; keep in mind, however, that if you are running trains with visitors present they are likely to wind up screaming to be heard above the din--a minor problem!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
markpierce Back in the 1960s I handlaid some track (rail and ties) directly onto plywood. It was rather tedious (even though I was a teenager then) and usually subject to a 50% spike failure rate. It was difficult also to avoid crushing ties. Do yourself a favor and lay the track on homasote. It makes handlaying a pleasure. Mark
If I was to take myself back 45 years and was spiking rail into plywood (I was more ignorant back then), I'd drill the spike holes with a Dremel (of a slightly smaller diameter than the spikes) and then spike the rails. And if unsure of the spikes' holding power, I'd apply a bit of glue to the spikes immediately before spiking. Nevertheless, back then I had higher priorities than the Dremel due to my limited teenage earning power (sans girlfriends!). Yes, I could have hand drilled the spike holes, but as previously mentioned, I was ignorant
...Well, mke do with what you have as I did.
I used roofing tar paper in one of my towns under the ties. Its cheap and thin and provides some sound deadening. The spikes did go into the plywood which made it somewhat more difficult to spike, but worked overall. I will be doing this on my next layout. This is OScale so results may vary. Here are some before and after of the process.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics: