I am in the planning stages of a 15'x20' HO layout, and I would like to use #6 turnouts on the main, and #4 turnouts everywhere else. I am hoping to use 6-axle diesels to haul taconite trains, but will the larger diesels be able to negotiate the #4 turnouts in the yards? The #6's certainly take up a lot of space, and I am wondering if it is worth it to have them on the layout any more than necessary. Thanks for any help!
NMRA recommends #6 turnouts for locomotives with 6 axles (3 on each bogie). I wouldn't recommend #4s built to NMRA specifications since they have a short section of 15-inch radius curve in HO scale. The #6 contains a 43-inch radius, but a #5 should probably work as it contains a 26-inch radius. Still, I would stick to #6s for turnouts on the mainline, and use #8s for crossovers (which contain S-curves) if I had the space.
Mark
My layout is in a 15x15' room and I used #6's for about 85% of my turnouts. Some of my mainline turnouts are #8, and my yard ladder is built with #6's. The only #5's I have are in a gravel plant that is serviced by 4 axle power and 26' tight bottomed ore cars. Unless you are planning on having a spaghetti bowl of track, I think you'll be much happier with both the looks and performance of the larger turnouts.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
#4's can be a real pinch for some 6 axle locos but mine get through them (mine are #4 Bachmann EZ-Track turnouts) well enough provided the train isn't moving faster than a scale 50 mph.
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I use #4 switches on my layout , I would have prefered # 6 switches but due to space I had to use #4's . My main locomotive is 6 axle but with good track work and slow speeds I have very few Problems .
I'm using Atlas customline #6 on everything but industry sidings. I have a SD45 that will go through Atlas #4s but my Trainmaster won't. If you are running modern 6 axle they are longer than a SD45. You might want to set up some test switches and track before you commit.
Wayne
I've chosen my engines carefully, but all of them negotiate all of my Atlas snap-switches with no problems. These are pretty close to #4 turnouts. I've got a BLI Hudson steamer that does just fine. My only 6-axle diesel is a Proto RSC-3, and it also runs smoothly over these turnouts.
Be careful of S-curves with tight turnouts. These are not so much a problem with 6-axle trucks, but rather with long engines and rolling stock because body-mounted couplers don't have enough sideways swing to get through the curves. Taconite ore cars are generally short, because even short cars are very heavy, so they should not be a problem. Those Moby Dick sized autoracks, though, won't like #4's much.
While most of us Transition Era modellers do it for the nostalgia, it's also the "sweet spot" for running short cars and short engines around the kind of tight curves we need for our minature worlds.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
If you're using a line of track that makes them, I would use No.5 turnouts instead of No.4s. They take up less room than a No.6 but are still broad enough to go allow most anything to go thru. I know from past experience that even some 4-axle diesels I have won't go thru a No.4 S-curve, but I never have had trouble with No.5s. (IIRC the closure radius of a No.5 is 26" radius and a No.4 is 15" radius.)
I cheated a little bit and stuck to consists of 4 axle desiels like a F unit ABBA to get around the switch problem. (Curves too)
I have a pair of SD7's from Proto and they max out on the Kato Number 4's switches that lead me to deploy the NW set of two switchers as a primary industry switching so to save the SD7's some grief. If space was not the issue it would be number 6's or greater all the way.
Maybe one day. But for right now the switches Im using do a good job without too much wild moves with the larger freight cars.
I gave one pair of switches a straight section just a little longer than one of the SD7's 6 axle trucks. It is a extreme form of cheating but I can get two of them through the set without derailing or maxing out the drivetrain stress/truck swing.
I would use #6 turnouts on everything that a large 6 axle engine might tread through. The Atlas Custom-Line #4 is really a #4 1/2 turnout. I have them in my yard and I do run GP9's, RSC2, and even a BLI 2-8-2 engine through them with no problem. But I would not want to force the issue! The rest of the layout has #6 turnouts, except for industry spurs. All of the staging and the passing sidings have #6 turnouts. Where you will have problems is backing a long train through #4's as the engine will pull cars off of the track due to the long overhang.
Jim Bernier
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
The largest turnouts on my layout are #5's. I have 5 of them. The rest are #4's. I have one Proto 2000 E unit that seems to be allergic to any and all turnouts so I run it only on the mainline. As for my other twelve 6 axle locos, they have no problems.
If you don't mind a view from the opposite camp, everything in model railroading is a compromise...appearance vs space alloted. I happen to love big curves and turnouts for realistic appearance and flawless performance, and I am willing to sacrifice tangent length. I will wrap the A/D tracks and yard lead around a curve if needed. I use #9 or 10's for crossovers and mainline turnouts to sidings. For yards I use #8's and the tightest service tracks or industrials get #6's. John Colley, Port Townsend, WA
Another consideration is price point. Kato number 6's are about a hundred some dollars more expensive as the entire group of 14 or so switches are considered than the number 4's I could still do it and even have one on hand for testing purpose. But that hundred hardly matters when you add in the loconet, DS64's etc etc etc.
If you are presented with a switch that leaves you in doubt, the 6 axle power will derail first on it before the 4 axle power does. Taking into consideration general things about modern model engines that is.
Thank you to everyone who has replied to my question. One of the best things about this hobby is the wealth of information available, especially from helpful people like the ones who keep this forum going. As much as I would like to use all #6 turnouts, I will go with a mix of #4 and #6 and hope for the best. If I can't use any six-axle diesels, it's no big loss. As always, the issue of available space is the great decider on this question. Thanks!
One more reply.
Almost none of my 6 axle diesels have a problem with #4s. I have more than two dozen ranging from budget Spectrum SD45s and Dash 8s to Katos. Only 3 or 4 out of the thirty or so, might be a little balky.
However, I would still go with the #6s if I were you. I had to move the switch motors back from their normal postions to custom connections wherever the switch was connected to a curve.
Also, the 6s yield proper parallel spaced yards, where as #4s force greater space between the sets of tracks in a yard than is realistic.
I would never use #4s again, but I didn't know better.
I personally prefer lots of space between body tracks in a yard. But that is me. My hands are not precise after years of hammering gears.
When mixing your switches, give a thought to placing a pair of number 6's or a single somewhere that will be heavily visited by people when the layout is operating. If they focus on that big switch and see how smooth the stuff rolls through it, they are less likely to eyeball the rest of the much smaller switches you might have elsewhere.
I forgot to click on the proper post so I could just qoute, but if I remember right #4's were 15" radius and #5 were 26. Does this all match up no matter the scale? I'd prefer to use Atlas C55 on my N scale with only 2 axle truck boogies which sort of makes me luck out because the Atlas only goes down to #5. But knowing this would greatly help me to draw out my layout plans. Yes I do realize the Atlas #5's will be like a foot long but I'm not worried about that, just means less flex track to worry about laying down straight.
Ive been known to use 10 freight cars as a "Handle" to reach into that one spur to dig out the outbounds with the 6 axle road power. It's a bit extreme but faster than having the plant switcher round and back.
MILW-RODR if I remember right #4's were 15" radius and #5 were 26. Does this all match up no matter the scale?
if I remember right #4's were 15" radius and #5 were 26. Does this all match up no matter the scale?
Those figures are about right for HO scale in standard gauge. Narrow-gauge HOn3 would have a tighter radius, N scale even tighter. The radius is a function of frog angle and distance between rails. The smaller they are, the sharper the radius.
Last Chance Ive been known to use 10 freight cars as a "Handle" to reach into that one spur to dig out the outbounds with the 6 axle road power. It's a bit extreme but faster than having the plant switcher round and back.
But prototypical when necessary, nevertheless.