I used Woodland Scenics roadbed and the train hissed along nicely. Then I added ballast and now there is a rumble. It appears that the ballast bridged the track to the plywood, making it a sound board.
I take it that this is normal?
Well, it's actually the ballast glue--it's acting like a kind of 'drum-head' as far as conducting sound. It even does it on my own MR, and mine is on a 2" extruded foam base. Actually, I kind of like the rumbling, it makes me feel that my locos and cars are a little more 'beefy' than they actually are. And let's face it, if you stand next to a prototype main line, you hear pretty much the same thing, only amplified a LOT more.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
No need to worry, it is normal. Mine does it too.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
The amplification problem is MUCH worse with WS foam bed than cork. I really hate that WS crap.
The ballast glue is the culprit. If you used a thinned down white glue, it dries 'rock hard' and the noise level is really high. I use 'matte medium', thinned down about 50/50 with water. When it dries it is sort of a 'soft' rubber texture, and dead flat. The negative is that it costs more than white glue, and is hard to remove from track if you want to reuse the trackage. White glue is water base and will peel off easy. You have to weigh your options!
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Thanks for the information. At least I know now that this is normal.
White glue is so incredibly cheap at the back to school sales it is hard to pass up.
FazbyWhite glue is so incredibly cheap at the back to school sales it is hard to pass up.
Well, where the heck were you before I did my ballasting?
If it falls apart, it should take some time. By then, I'll probably be ready to build something different. I'll go with the flow and learn as I go.
Thanks!
Yes, it's normal. When you glued the ballast, it now carries the sound from the track directly to the plywood where before ballasting the roadbed was absorbing some of the noise.
That's why I always put something such as sound board on top of the plywood and never leave it bare.
For next time, or sooner if you just can't abide it any longer, place a layer of underlay, the harder vinyl kind (yellow, 3/16" thick), in a stip wider than your cork so that poured and shaped ballast will be kept on the underlay surface.
Once you know your trackplan, and have your centerline, you can cut the strips to conform to the curvature and tangent in any one spot. Just make sure your strips are about 2.5" wide. Then, use cheap acrylic latex caulk in a thin layer, but not paper thin, to keep the underlay in place. Use more caulk, again with it spread thin, to hold your cork. You may have to weight and tack in your cork with finishing nails here and there where the curves are tight enough to make the cork want to straighten.
Once your track is ballasted and the ballast hardened, I think you'll find the isolation from the bench via the vinyl sandwiched with layers of soft caulk and cork to be quite acceptable in terms of noise.
Just an idea, but I've often thought that a thin layer of rubber-like material between the cork (or whatever) and the plywood (or whatever) would solve the problem. I'm talking about the stuff that jar lid openers are made of - neoprene, maybe. About 1/64" thick.
Anyone know what that material is and where to buy it?
- Harry
Rubber underlayment for whole board? Sounds like a job for pond liner. 30 to 50 mils thick. (I have a pond, else this would not come to mind.) EPDM rubber - check HD, Lowes, Menards, garden centers, etc.
One downside is that it will be a water tight surface. At least plywood absorbs and redistributes some moisture. Flat surfaces are fine; folding (corners) is murder.
(Avatar is just for Halloween)
How about using silicone caulking for attaching the roadbed and track, then use matt medium to hold the ballast?
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
FazbyRubber underlayment for whole board? Sounds like a job for pond liner. 30 to 50 mils thick. (I have a pond, else this would not come to mind.) EPDM rubber - check HD, Lowes, Menards, garden centers, etc. One downside is that it will be a water tight surface. At least plywood absorbs and redistributes some moisture. Flat surfaces are fine; folding (corners) is murder.
Well, that's not what I had in mind. Different type of material, and I meant only under the roadbed. Maybe I'm way off base calling it neoprene, but it's not vinyl and I don't think it would be a pond liner.
Upon further review, maybe it is the same material used for pond liners.
Thanks for the great info guys.
Here I am in my forties, been a modeler since the 1970s and never knew that the glue typically used to hold scale track ballast together could cause the resonance mentioned. I'm currently (and slowly)building my along the wall layout. and will soon be ready to lay down the code 83 track.
I'm interested in taking the Matte Medium route. I think I can get that at an art supply store. Anyone know the typical prices and the size containers it's available in?.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
My current trackwork design calls for cork atop 1/2" Homasote® atop 3/8" ply subroadbed. I can perhaps be accused of overdesigning my roadbed structure but this works for me and that layer of Homasote® effectively isolates my subroadbed from the ballast and the trains on my layouts run relatively quietly.
I have not had need to purchase any Homasote® for quite awhile--and probably will not be purchasing any in the near future; I was recently advised by a friend of mine--who essentially uses the same trackwork structure as I--that our insulation supplier is out of--and has been unable to acquire--Homasote® in the 1/2" thickness so he had to settle for 5/8" thickness. I hope that this is only a temporary shortage and when I get back to layout building I will be able to continue to use this 3/8" ply-1/2" Homasote® combination.
I have given some consideration to going to a 1/4"-5/8" Homasote® combination and--after using a router to bevel the edge of the Homasote® to roadbed profile-- eliminating the cork and mounting the track diirectly atop the Homasote®. As some of you may be painfully aware sawing--or routing for that matter--Homasote® is a dusty job and is best done out-of-doors.II heartily recomment the product for its sound deadening qualities.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Fazby I used Woodland Scenics roadbed and the train hissed along nicely. Then I added ballast and now there is a rumble. It appears that the ballast bridged the track to the plywood, making it a sound board. I take it that this is normal?
I use Arizona Rock & Mineral real stone held down with diluted white gule over WS Trackbed on top of 1/2" plywood and I have no difference in sound between ballasted and nonballasted areas of track. It's very quiet.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
I'm a fan of Homasote as well. deadens sound well and is cheap to use.
Jimmy
ROUTE ROCK!
I've heard the idea that Matte Medium prevents the noise problem. I'm getting ready to ballast quite a large section... but I'm wondering... has anyone really tested the Matte Medium alongside Elmer's and is it really noticeably quieter... or is this perhaps one of those sage wisdom pieces that we keep passing back and forth without side by side testing.
Why my hesitation? Man that stuff's expensive (compared to good ol' Elmer's).
jxtrrx I've heard the idea that Matte Medium prevents the noise problem. I'm getting ready to ballast quite a large section... but I'm wondering... has anyone really tested the Matte Medium alongside Elmer's and is it really noticeably quieter... or is this perhaps one of those sage wisdom pieces that we keep passing back and forth without side by side testing. Why my hesitation? Man that stuff's expensive (compared to good ol' Elmer's).
I use Matte Mod Podge and still have an increase in noise level. I didn't like Elmers because it left a shine on my ties. The matte dries VERY flat. Even flatter than the WS glue. Didn't compare the two for noise level though.