Concrete Tie Turnouts

[Anonymous]

I have been thinking of what era my next layout will be. After about a week, I decided upon the modern era. I have also decided to use the concrete tie super-flex track made by Atlas. While looking for this, It came to me that I have not heard of anyone producing and selling concrete tie turnouts to the equivilant of an Atlas #6 or #8 turnout. Is there someone who manufactures these? If not, is there a process to realistically creat a conctrete tie turnout?

[Anonymous]

I don't think such an animal exist anywhere but in prototype ( rare at that) Click here for a photo of the prototype.
I noticed the concrete sleepers on the prototype T.O. are shaped differently than other trackage.

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UPDATE 3/23/04
I surfed the web and checked out American and European model railroad manufacturers and I couldn't find anyone who makes turnouts with concrete ties. Sorry.

wp8thsub makes a great point for using turnouts with wood ties along with regular trackage with concrete ties and still be prototypical. I know from watching the video "A Cab Ride on the Northeast Corridor", only sections of trackage lay on concrete ties.
Turnouts with concrete ties may be more common for high speed passenger trains in Europe.

If you really want a turnout with concrete ties, you could scrape, fill and sand the wood grain on a regular turnout (practice on cheap or scrap turnout) then try to match the color to the Atlas track or paint both. You wouldn't need to match the contour (see the prototype photo).
If you hand lay them, making the ties match the shape and color to the Atlas flex track and spiking the rail would be very difficult. Maybe styrene strips?

You know what will happen don't you. After you go without and finish your layout, Atlas will introduce a concrete turn out!

[wp8thsub]

One thing to remember is that concrete tie turnouts are not that common on the prototype, at least the areas I've seen. My father in law retired last year from a career with the UP, where he supervised engineering work on a number of projects where concrete ties were used everywhere but the turnouts. I don't remember in full his explanation of why, but it seemed to involve the stresses on the concrete ties when a train used the diverging route (and the resulting maintenance) rendering the installation not cost effective for most applications. Note also that even on the most heavily used UP lines in the West, concrete ties are found only on parts of some main tracks, with wood typically still on sidings, yard tracks, industrial spurs. I can't speak for prototypes in other regions.

[denny99]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SD40T-2

I have been thinking of what era my next layout will be. After about a week, I decided upon the modern era. I have also decided to use the concrete tie super-flex track made by Atlas. While looking for this, It came to me that I have not heard of anyone producing and selling concrete tie turnouts to the equivilant of an Atlas #6 or #8 turnout. Is there someone who manufactures these? If not, is there a process to realistically creat a conctrete tie turnout?

hi SD40T-2,
I'm building a layout based on european prototype (austria), where is common to see concrete ties tracks but almost impossible to see concrete ties turnouts :)

in europe there is no manufacturer producing concrete ties turnouts. I think in USA, too. use wood ties turnouts and don't be afraid to compromise realism, you won't.

bye
Denny

[ClinchValleySD40]

Can't exist in the prototype. One thing concrete ties can't take is movement. If it is not a solid base, they will break.

[Anonymous]

Can't remember where, but I've heard that one of the reasons concrete ties aren't used for turnouts is that each tie has to be molded individually to its length, unlike wooden ties which can be cut onsite. Since each tie has a specific length from its inception and place in a turnout, they are more expensive to manufacture and less flexible in an installation. So, wooden ties are used for turnouts in all but the most heavily traveled trackage.

[Anonymous]

Clinchvalley, are you saying there are no contrete ties? The Union Pacific was replacing wood ties with concrete ones as fast as they could in the Nebraska Panhandle in the late 80s and early 90s.

Ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by clinchvalley

Can't exist in the prototype. One thing concrete ties can't take is movement. If it is not a solid base, they will break.

Here is a photograph of a turnout, being built, with concrete ties or sleepers.

[Anonymous]

Click on the countries below to find manufactures of prototype turnouts with concrete ties in Europe and USA .
in Sweden
in United Kindom
in Germany
in USA

[ClinchValleySD40]

ebriley, we're talking turnouts/switches. I know there are tons of concrete ties on regular track, I laid hundreds of them in the 70's on the FEC.
You will NOT see concrete ties under switches on mainline US railroads with heavy traffic unless they really improve the technology. Europe and Amtrak NE Corridor do not count.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by clinchvalley

ebriley, we're talking turnouts/switches. I know there are tons of concrete ties on regular track, I laid hundreds of them in the 70's on the FEC.
You will NOT see concrete ties under switches on mainline US railroads with heavy traffic unless they really improve the technology........

I think the technology has improved enough for CSX to install a crossover with concrete sleepers near Brunswick, Maryland.
I posted the question on Trains Magizine Forum.com and got an answer instantly.
I seems that citizens of the small community down the line from him, where they installed it, are complaining that it is shaking houses from their foundations.
No doubt they're hoping you're right about the lack of durability.

[BR60103]

I'll add that the Toronto subway, which uses a variety of concrete track bases including slabs, goes back to ballast and wooden ties for switches and crossings. (There may be some that aren't, but I can't think of any.)

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the information guys. I will probably make some of these conrete ties (similar to the shape of the ones in Gary's picture) out of plastor or something and just use a hand-laying technique.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SD40T-2

.. I will probably make some of these conrete ties (similar to the shape of the ones in Gary's picture) out of plastor or something and just use a hand-laying technique.

The ties in the prototype photos has flat ties. So you may just get away using styrene or ABS strips. Perhaps epoxy or ACC glue. EXPERIMENT! and good luck.

[BR60103]

Try using PC board strips, if you can get them.
Plastic with plastic fasteners, if you can get the fasteners.
For foreground detail -- new concrete ties about to be installed, try casting in hydrocal or plaster.

[Anonymous]

I dont know the significance but here in Melbourne (Australia) there seems to be no hesitation in installing turnouts laid on concrete sleepers. At Sydenham they built a new station to serve as a terminus for the EMU service from the city and all the turnouts there are laid on concrete including about four so called "high-speed" turnouts although they arent all that high speed by todays standard and i believe they lack movable frogs.
In my home town they have 2 near complete turnouts on concrete sleepers laying beside the mainline ready for installation. I dont know for sure but I believe these particular turnouts are capable of handling a train at 100mph through the diverging route. Once again i'm not sure if there are movable frogs on these or not.
I should note that these locations are mixed traffic also, both hosting heavy passenger traffic during the day and then heavy freight traffic during the night.