Now that the mainline and the majority of sidings are laid down, I'm at a frustrating juncture. While the trains are indeed rolling, I hardly know where to begin in starting to work on the various scenes and layout sections.
Part of me wants to add some basic structures and scenery to each scene/area to get rid of the 'pool-table' look as soon as possible. I've heard that others flesh out each scene more completely before moving on to the next.
I'm sure there's not really a "right or wrong" answer to the question - there are probably nearly as many options as there are RR modelers - but is there a conventional wisdom about the sequence of events in detailing a layout?
Like you said there are many ways to go. Me - I mocked up all of the major rail related structures as I was laying the roadbed. Going from printed plan to benchwork sometimes doesn't always work as envisioned. I did it at the same time so I could move both the structure and/or the track to get the best result. I just used the cardboard from the track and roadbed boxes to make building fronts and sides. I also printed out building names and gluesticked the to the fronts to get a good feel of everything. It dosen't get easier than now to change something - narrower building for clearnce, longer building to accept an extra car. Also works well to see if a building is to tall/short. Nothing beats seeing in 3rd full size before you cut anything
I used BBQ skewers to pin in place and adjust. This box was from Walthers
ratled
Modeling the Klamath River area in HO on a proto-lanced sub of the SP “The State of Jefferson Line”
It depends on what you like. I had a basic idea of what the sceney was to be like. I then added scenes as I was in the mood. I never seem to "Finish" any of them. Some days I was in the mood for a little scene. We did Hobo Cave in one afternoon. Some times I was in the mood for a large scene. It took more than a year and three efforts to get Yellowstone Canyon done. At the moment I am working on three different scenes.
I also learned, that no matter how much I planned, when I got to a specific scene, I seemed to change it as I go. I find a great model I want to build, and then I have to find a place to put it. I got the roundhouse for Christmas and needed a whole new area that was never in the orginal plan.
My "conventinal wisdom" is that this is supposed to be fun. Do what you like. Interestily enough, one of the nicest layouts I visit has no scenery at all. He like to run trains.
I would first get a rough idea of what each siding is for. You don't even have to be specific, but you might want to think "Well, this will be for tank cars," or "I'll have a generic factory with a loading dock here." Start with the railroad-oriented industries.
Consider where you will put roads. I draw them in with a fat marker pen, just outlines with "ROAD" written on them. This is a good thing to do early, before you start buying structures, because it's too easy to fill up space and then not have room for a realistic roadway. It's also good to make sure that you don't have a turnout right where you need a grade crossing.
Water, canyons, bridges and mountains will affect your track plan, but smaller "scenic" water hazards can still be planned and built after your track is down.
Go to the Walthers site and sign up for their montly flyer. It comes in the mail, and it's free. It might take a month or two to get in the system, but once it does you'll have a nice reference. Most of the items are on sale, too. I order through my LHS, so I get the sale price, and I don't pay for shipping. If your LHS has the same relationship with Walthers, they probably have the flyers, too. While you wait, you can look at the flyer on-line. (I like the paper copy better.) This flyer is a good place to look for ideas. They've recently begun grouping together similar or related items, like the "grain industry" pages or the more recent "engine maintenance" area.
As I recall, you were putting in a car float. You might want to check out the "Walters is bringing back pier front buildings" thread over in General Discussions. Looks like the car float kit will be returning early next year.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
My feeling is to generally work from the backdrop, the furtherest point, and then work closer toward the layout edge when beginning initial scenery.
You eliminate some of the harder to reach areas which tend to be more general in nature anyhow. This alone allows your thoughts to begin flowing, especially where you will need greater detail, closer to the observer. It also permits you to do building mock-ups and the like, with an idea of how it literally looks, against "the larger picture" of the scenery "beyond the layout."
Take a gander at some Utah Colorado Western cheesecloth scenery just for fun...
http://www.ucwrr.com/Kelly%27sScenery.htm
The point here is to observe how the scenery develops over time.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Thanx for all the feedback so far. I didn't word my original query very well.
My trackplan is detailed enough that I know what spurs are dedicated to what industries. I have more than enough shelf orphans to keep me busy with structures for quite a while. I have the sawmill, log dump, car float apron (no barge yet), oil depot, quarry/gravel crusher, grain elevator, mfg and some 'town' buildings. I have a decent idea what goes where, but as you say - things change.
My problem revolves more around which effort yields the most beneficial results early on. Basic scenery? temp placement of structures? cut the shoreline for the harbor? etc etc etc.
As simple as it is, I haven't done the 'mark out the roads' step - good idea. I think that'll help as I try to decide about placing structures that are road-served.
If it helps any, I've been working left to right on my layout.
Part of what I've had to do is get over the fear factor of doing new stuff. For example, pit-bashing the Atlas turntable would render the original deck unusable. I bought an expensive craftsman kit for an old abandoned gristmill, and I didn't feel up to that level of construction when I bought it. And, I'm still working up the nerve to try the large "Bay" part of my Moose Bay layout. So, instead, I did the easier, "comfort zone" stuff first before stretching out and learning new skills.
I don't like to get into a repetitive rut of doing the same thing day after day. Some days I feel like doing scenery, some days like painting structures, and on some days I really want to ballast track. So, for me, anyway, it's more pleasant to work on a small area, maybe a square foot or so, and go from pink foam to finished product. That said, though, I got way out in front on structures for a while, so I had a lot of buildings all over the place before there was any scenery around any of them. I think this helped me with my thought processes and planning.
Mister B - every suggestion helps - thanx.
Well there are a lot of schools of thought on this one. I have several friends, who along with myself, are working on medium to large size layouts finished out to fine scale detail level. Mine has been in for four years and is approaching the level of completeness that your layout appears to be at now (My layout is 13' x 22' - double decked). Most of my freinds have been working on their layouts for at least a decade.
One approach is to bring everything up to the same level of completeness as you progress. All of the track work done at once, all of the ballasting, all of the hard shell etc. The advantage of this approach is that you finish the layout more quickly and can use the economy of scale to make the work more effiecient. This disadvantage as Mr. B. and others point out, is that you can get sick of doing the same thing for say a month or two until the task is complete across the entire layout. This is especially true of larger layouts, where a task such as ballasting and painting the track might take quite awhile..
Another approach is to finish a scene at a time. Most of the MMRs that I know use this approach. They work on a scene at a time until it is finished. This allows them to do a variety of things and also gives a sense of accomplishment when you have a scene that looks good and is completely done.
There are a few drawbacks to this plan, the first is the possibility of damage to the completed scene from work on another part of the railroad. For example in a double deck situation, if there is a finished scene in the botom deck, one has to be very careful when working above it on the upper deck. Another drawback is that it can take years and years to complete stuff (that is normal) and large sections of the layout will be "plywood central" while there are pockets of superdetailed scenes interspersed around the layout room. This can give the feeling of an unfinished layout even though there are cool scenes to look at that have taken yeas to complete.
I have used the first approach up to this point but am now switching to the second method to finish scenes. I think it is important to get most of the heavy benchwork and carpentry work done before the fine detail goes in (sawdust bath anyone?). I also tend to jump around quite a bit as things do tend to take a long time and one does get tired of certain projects....
I would suggest starting with a scene that you are sure of how you want it to look and try to go until you finish it. You may not get all the way done with it but it allows you to work on something while you start to solve the scenes you are less sure of. A trick I learned from the experts in my area is to work on lots of projects at once and hopscotch back and forth. Currently I am: building a turntable, weathering a freight shed, sceniking a trestle and painting track in an area...All of the above items are moving me towards a common goal of finishing a certain scene on the railroad. My "to do" list seems to change a lot and I don't let it bug me as long as I am enjoying myself.
Then of course I spend a lot of time just running trains and not building anything.....
Congratulations on reaching this stage of construction: kick back and enjoy the ride..
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Something which has influenced my sequence of construction is the Weekend Photo Fun thread. Along with the other stuff I enjoy about the hobby, I've found that I really like taking good pictures of my layout. But, I really do NOT like having half-finished scenery in the pictures I put up for public viewing, unless they are intended as "progress" shots. So, once I start a project like a row of shops or a wooded area, I will generally carry it through to completion, so I can take a picture of the finished project and let people see it.
The earlier post about doing the background stuff first is something to consider. Depending on how your benchwork and walls fit together, it may be a reach to get to some stuff in the back. Hopefully, it's just scenery and you'll never have to clean up after a derailment back there, and heaven forbid that you'd need to replace trackwork. On my layout, I've got a lot of structures right at the front edge, so sometimes I need to remove them to tweak the scenery in the middle. That's not too bad for a quick repair, but if you've got a big patch of pink foam behind something like the New River Mine, then you're going to regret not finishing the background first.
johncolley wrote: It is interesting to see how your work improves with practice! Then you can touch up the early efforts. John Colley, Port Townsend, WA
That's a good point, and worth a bit of thought. Unless you're already a veteran modeller, you will find that there is quite a difference between what you build first and what you build much later. Your skills do improve, sometimes dramatically. I was noticing just the other night that the area I've been working on is strikingly more realistic than those scenes over on the left side of the layout where I began. That would again argue for doing your background scenery first, because that won't be as closely viewed as the stuff right up front. If you're planning a few "showpiece" scenes, you might want to save those until you've tuned up your modelling a bit.
Caveat - as this is being typed, I have yet to lay a millimeter of track that will not be hidden by currently non-existent scenery.
My plan, as soon as I lay some track that is intended to be visible, is to rough in the adjacent terrain - probably with basic hardshell or slabbed-off chunks of styrene, quick-sprayed with rattle-can paint in a basic woodlands camo color scheme. At this point, the 500 meter rule applies - if it doesn't look positively atrocious from the main operating aisle, it will be good enough.
Later, when the mood strikes me, I will dig in and detail each area to the 100-meter standard - still not ready for its close-ups, but with ruts in the goat path road, proper foundations under the buildings, ballast, basic foliage and ground cover...
Later still, when the priority-build list (and improving operational capability) permit, I will go back and add detailed fence lines, advertising signs on the passenger shed walls, mile posts, 100-meter stakes, grade indicators, loop-catchers for the block tickets dropped from the cab of speeding (at 45 scale KPH ) coal trains, (etc, etc, et al, ad nauseam...)
I expect to reach the end of that phase when they take me to the mortuary - and I'm not planning to leave any time soon!
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Tim Fahey
Musconetcong Branch of the Lehigh Valley RR
Once I have the track in place, I build all of the structures for an area of about 4-6 square feet. This allows me to set them in place and try different locations before I become committed. Once I decide on the structure locations, I trace their footprints on the layout and build a foundation out of stripwood. I block sand these so the structures fit their foundations perfectly. I also build the roads.
Here you can see a few structures temporarily placed. There is also one permanent foundation (under the spool of red wire):
Once all of the foundations are done, I put the buildings, trains, etc. in storage and do scenery right up to the foundations and roads. I complete the scenery through adding ground cover and get the roads looking right, then I balast the track. Finally, I install the buildings, add trees, people, etc. I tack the buildings down with just a few drops of yellow glue. This holds them in place but I can still remove them if I need to.
This approach seems to make the buildings look like they've really got a foundation and that they've been there a while. It also allows lots of time to troubleshoot the track while I'm in the building construction phase.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.