lower level planing, 75% done..
Mid and upper levels, 25% done..
Now, New question and hall to mount. Anyone know Crewe Va? To those of you who know it, ok, those that dont, it was the N&W Div Point yard on the Norfolk Division. Now, here is what I need or am looking to do.
I need help planing it, what I am looking for is, fair size yard to stand for a divison point yard. Turntable/round house, service track, at least 3 or 4 tracks for seting up trains, and 6+ tracks for storing cars and sorting them for trains. Anyone got any ideas or maybe a yard I can look at for ideas. I am in N scale again, and have about 8 feet by at least foot, foot and a half to build with.
One more thing, i am planing this with the track planing program from Atlas, so, how would i upload what I have done from my PC to here?
My idea of a yard.
1- Train length arrival track with some way for the road engine to escape.
2- Switcher drill track MUST be able to get to this arrived train without interfering with mainline.
3- Switcher eats into arrived train and sorts using a yard track for a specific purpose.
Example..
Track one. All cars scheduled for delivery on the industrial branch.
Track two. All cars scheduled for delivery to the town. (Currently this town is not yet built but am working on it... there are industries such as a Cold Storage etc already built for it)
Track three. All cars scheduled for through to the next railroad down the line.
Track four. For nows. In other words if you had some cars that you are not yet sure or holding for the next train etc you can stick em here for now.
Track 5. Leave empty. Maybe park the caboose there, hopefully near the yard office.
If your train is choo choo+ 20 cars long and a caboose and you have a yard large enough to store 3 of these trains without using all the tracks up you are right about 70-80% of capacity without suffering gridlock and failure to move freight.
A yard is a place to break, build and sort trains and move em out. A yard likes to be empty most of the time. A full yard is not a happy yard.
Departing trains? Simple. Dispatch the local engine to the yard track holding the industry branch train. Hook up, pull out get the caboose or have it tacked on by the switcher and move it out. The next engine will be the town train and so on... once you get into the flow you can handle any surprises that pop up...
Some yards have more than one arrival and departure tracks with a double crossover to make it all work. They tend to get busy fast.
I mean, I under stand how a yard works.. I am just having a hard time laying it out so it flows right!! The idea is there, just cant get the flow to work is all I am saying. If some one could maybe show me some ideas it would help brake this new dam i have hit.
rtprimus I mean, I under stand how a yard works.. I am just having a hard time laying it out so it flows right!! The idea is there, just cant get the flow to work is all I am saying. If some one could maybe show me some ideas it would help brake this new dam i have hit.
Plenty of ideas about workable yard design e.g. in John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operations" or Andy Sperandeo's "The Model Railroader's Guide to Freight Yards", or Tony Koester's "Realistic Model Railroad Building Blocks".
Stein
Some really great input as well as links have already been given, Chips beginner link has great info.
I've been through the same dillemma a couple times now and I now know that the next layout will be that much easier. Other than having proper yard operation and industry spurs coming off a siding to not foul the main line bridges that crossing over other bridges , intended river depths etc. I now feel that the track plan is really not cut and dry there are always changes that need to be made. Once you have an idea on era , structures you want , scenery type ie bridges rivers mountains, the rest will fall into place.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
Had to relay the East runaround and make the track work get to the two buildings, one a shipping office and the other a steam plant. As it turned out, I needed two more switches to make the durn thing work, however the alternative was to break down a cut and sort it one or two cars at a time. I wanted to make it just able to handle one cut of 4 cars at a time and make it all fit.
A bit of franken trackwork with two crossovers involving 4 switches to make it all work. That flow... well... here is a tidbit.
If you cross a switch to one side and you cross over using the other side you make a "S" curve. Very bad for trains. In my situation, both crossovers are seperated by 12 inches of straight track. Long enough for one engine or very big long car to negotiate safely at a low speed.
Thinking back on it, I hate seeing cars come out of one curve and S'ing right into the next 3 ties later. The couplers sometimes seperate or both end trucks derail when the swing becomes too big. And watching one corner swing like... 20 scale feet away from the car in front of it is just nuts.
Trackwork makes me tear my hair out because there MUST be engine or longest car distance between switches to avoid S curves and the wall is there to prevent me from simply moving the switches far apart.
A alternative to my franken track is to have double slips... THAT is not availible with the Katos im using but would be outstanding.
There is not "one" good yard design. What works for one place may not work in another. For instance, the yard on my layout has one arrival track, and 2 for sorting, that's it. It works great for my small world but for a larger layout it would suck.
My advice is to first come up with an overall scheme for train movements across the entire layout. Using this, you can get a relative idea of what will be entering and leaving the yard (number of trains, length, etc.) Design a yard based on this info. When you have this, lay out the yard on a large piece of paper or wood. It does not have to be full scale, just big enough to hold all the cars. By doing this you have a visual representation of the yard. Move the cars around as you would a regular yard (train comes in, engine detatches, runs for service, switcher takes caboose off train, etc, etc.) This is the best way to get the "flow" right.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
update again:
Lower level, 75%
Mid level, 50%
Upper level 25%
Guess I am about 1/2 way to being done with my plan. Now, I have three new questions:
First, I am planing on using a USRA 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain as in Wayfreight service. What is the smallest turn I can run it though?
2nd, Using Atlas track planning program, how do I chance the color of the background?
3rd, same program, how do I post up what I have done so far on here?
forgot to say that the 482 Heavy Mountain will be N Scale.
Now, would like to know which would be a better road to travel. using hollow core doors with formboard on then to build on or building the fraim work myself? I am leaning to the doors myself.
Oh, which would be a better way to set up passing tracks.. I am going planing on a double track main line, so, which would be better...Center passing track or one passing track on the out side of the main line so it would go from 2 tracks to 4 tracks across?
Having used both of the free software packages mentioned, and given the size of your layout, I would be using the XtrkCAD. Now I know you have already learned the RTS, but XtrkCAD only takes about 4 hours to learn with the tutorial. The problem is that RTS is just not very functional and you end up wasting a lot of your design space on software issues. For instance in the above post you mention that you are considering 4 tracks wide. RTS will create a design that uses 50% more space than XtrkCAD for the drawing. It's space that the software needs, not the physical space needed for the track on the layout. This wasted space represents a lot of missed opportunities in the design phase.
On an N-scale layout you will be spending near $100 per sq ft on your layout and 50 hours/square ft in construction. That represents a lot of time and money that can be potentially wasted on a poor design tool.
RTS's was designed to sell Atlas track. It does that very well.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
rtprimus Oh, which would be a better way to set up passing tracks.. I am going planing on a double track main line, so, which would be better...Center passing track or one passing track on the out side of the main line so it would go from 2 tracks to 4 tracks across?
N&W used a lot of center passing tracks in double track areas. I would go with those.
Some of the questions are answered by what the prototype did.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
rtprimus 2nd, Using Atlas track planning program, how do I chance the color of the background?
Read the manual - no doubt it will say how to do this.
"Atlas track planning program" is called "Right track".
Manual can be downloaded from here: http://www.atlasrr.com/righttrack.htm
I found it by going to www.google.com and entering "Atlas track planning program" as a seach term
General answer:
1) First make an image file. How ? Read the manual for your progam. Or on a PC, use PrtScreen to create snapshot of screen image, paste into MS paint, edit and crop and save as jpg.
2) If necessary, change image format til jpg - using e.g. Microsoft Paint (Save as)
3) Upload to some website - e.g. www.photobucket.com - free registration
4) Copy "IMG" link from photobucket, paste into your post here.
Smile, Stein
well, its been sometime sence I posted on here. For the last few weeks, I have been trying to plan my layout useing XtrkCAD. To date.. I have not gotten anything done with it!!! I have never used a CAD program but, you cant do anything with this thing!!! Then only thing I have gotten with it is a pain in the neck!
To those of you who read what I typed up earlyer, sorry, was blowing some steam over my layout. But, as of right now, I have scraped what I have planed and started over.
One more question, anyone know of any N scale buildings that would be a close match for this building?
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/glass_plates/screen/03GP0374.jpg
I know of nothing anywhere in the hobby that matches that building. HOWEVER.. being positive, you can learn the build with syrene, send the item off to have it built by someone for a fee or kit bashing a bunch of kits. You could steal the columns off the walthers courthouse, cut other buildings and hammer DPM or other type of parts until you get close to what you want.
You might have the pleasure of being the only one in all the world to build it in 1/87. THAT would really provide inspiration.
rtprimus well, its been sometime sence I posted on here. For the last few weeks, I have been trying to plan my layout useing XtrkCAD. To date.. I have not gotten anything done with it!!! I have never used a CAD program but, you cant do anything with this thing!!! Then only thing I have gotten with it is a pain in the neck!
Assuming that you ran the tutorial, the people who have difficulty are those that try to run the program like RTS.
This is going to sound simple but it is. You place pieces of track on the layout using either the circle track tool or the straight track tool and use the join tool to connect them. For instance, if you were going to draw a shelf layout around the room, you would put a circle in each corner with the radius turn you desire then use the join tool to run track from circle to circle. The part of the circle you don't use drops away automatically and now you have an oval mainline around the room.
Now you just take a turnout and drop it on the straight track any where you want it. You switch to the extend/modify tool and drag track from the frog of the turnout and you have a spur.
This is much simpler than RTS--but you have to stop thinking about how RTS works.
A yard takes seconds to draw--not minutes or hours.
I spent quite a bit of time learning xtracad myself , I found the best way to learn was to learn the basics of making curves , joining , adding switches, zoom in and out ( this is to see if rails are actually close enough or in line enough to be joined) , rotating and moving ( very important ) , making layers. Also keep an eye on the radius your creating at the bottom of the box. I found this tool invaluable for testing my plan for operations and workable yards by using the train simulation. Once you learn the very basics you can open up a sample plan and disec it or use parts to create your own. The is also a yahoo group for xtracad and those guys know this sw in out and sideways.
Here's the plan I created , for many there may be flaws but for me it works.
Main Level
Lower Staging
rtprimusI have scrapped what I had planned and started over.
Well, how about starting in a smaller way this time?
Trying to bite off too much at the same time just leads to frustration.I know you see the whole 11x11 foot layout on two levels as a unit. But try to make one scene that works first.
Just make e.g. a couple of simple 4 foot long, 20" deep platforms like this out of e.g. 1x3's on edge.
Then put some 1/2" plywood on top, draw a line, cut plywood and glue it on top of the hollow platform. Glue foam on top or not, as you like.
Now you have somewhere to lay track for a small scene - an 8 foot long and 20" deep scene in N scale is the equivlent of a 14 feet long and 3 feet deep scene in H0 scale - plenty of room for a small town scene of some kind.
So now you pick one of the towns you wanted to model.And start working on the design of this one scene. Either make a track plan by computer, on paper using a plain ruler, or just get some track and start laying out your track, while using cardboard cut to size and taped together (or walls of house kits taped together) to test out the placement of your buildings will be.
E.g. like this:
Fiddle around with your scene until you are happy with it - for now.Then lay the track properly, and build some temporary staging.
You can e.g. build a section that goes next to your modelled scene that either has several parallell tracks mounted on a "drawer" - so you can line up any track on the drawer with the track leading into your modelled scene, or build a section that goes next to your modelled scene that has a return loop.
Find some way of supporting your modules - eg a couple of doors on sawhorses, or some simple shelving of some kind.
And you have a railroad that can actually start operating on that first section, while you start planning the next scene you want on your layout. With quite a bit of traffic - if you have 6-8 staging tracks on both sides of the modelled scene, you can run more than 10 trains through your scene in one session - some passing through, some dropping off cars, some taking a siding to let another train past, some doing local switching etc.
And this way you can move your entire 8 foot section to somewhere else in the room - along any wall, along a peninsula, first level or second level etc as you progress.
The way to eat an elephant is to do it step by step. Not all at once :-)
You might even get some help here designing a smaller scene - nobody in their right mind would jump at a chance to spend a lot of time trying to design a full 11x11 layout in two levels for someone who cannot describe very clearly what he wants - it is too much like work. Unpaid work, and likely to be futile work.
But a single scene always get a lot of helpful design comments if you post it here.
Try it - you might get positively surprised - both at what you can accomplish on your own, and at what kind of help you might get.
First thing I would decide upon if I were you : train lengths you expect to handle. In number of engines and cars, and in number of inches of space such a train will take. Because that decides e.g. siding lengths.
Good luck in your planning and building!
I, too, advocate that you join a club if one is available and considering the size of the metropolitan area where you reside there should be one. Belonging to a club does a couple of things:
--- it enables you to acquire--and operate--equipment without the necessity of expending assets on the acquisition of (model) real estate;
--- it puts you in touch with many experienced modelers who can--usually, at least--flood you with a vast reservoir of knowledge both in the direction of your equipment but of railroad practices in general;
--- since most clubs maintain some sort of library you can probably use it to enhance your knowledge of your prototype selection.
I too am an N-Scaler and frustrated because of the lack of good transition-era steam. There are exceptions, of course, but N&W-specific steamers have been nearly non-existant, the old Rowa/Rivarossi Y6b being the notable exception. This is currently out of production and the issue is still in doubt as to whether Hornby will opt to reintroduce it. Walthers/LifeLike has a Y3 on the market but some of the postings here on the forum give it marginal reviews. With this in mind you might be better served to consider a 1960s-era N&W.
As an addendum, I acquired Kalmbach's new 102 Trackplans book yesterday; they have an eight-page 6 Railroads You Can Model bonus book enclosed which includes a feature on David Popp's original Naugatuck Valley Railroad. You might acquire this book and peruse this layout as it is readily adaptable to either a spare bedroom or even the corner of an existing room.
I might add to this the advice--and that's all it is--that you not become intimidated by the large layouts frequently gracing the pages of the hobby press; theyare there to be admired to be sure but they usually reflect a considerable investment by the builder who may have considerably more experience and monetary assets than you. Never develop the idea that just because you have a layout gracing a 10X12 spare bedroom in an apartment that this makes you some sort of a substandard modeler alongside the rail who has a 20X50 foot basement pike. One of the MMRs in the current Scale Rails series on The Year of the MMR has done all of his modeling in a 9X11 spare bedroom. A good model railroad is an exercise in quality, not necessarily quantity.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet