Problem crossing

[tstage]

Greetings,

Some of you may know that I'm rewiring my layout.  I was testing out a section of my mainline last night when my Trix Mike shorted out briefly as it was backing up.  I moved the Mike forward then backed it up again to observe at what point the sound and headlight cut out: It was right where the rear tender trucks first made contact with a 60-degree crossing.

The short was not long enough to trip my NCE Power Cab, but it was long enough to lose sound and light on the Mike.  None of my other locomotives - steam or diesel - has a similar problem on the crossing.

As I took a look at the crossing more closely, I found the following:

Click picture to enlarge

The mainline runs east and west and the crossing is NOT powered (for now) in the north and south position.  The Trix Mike only shorts at that one junction going in reverse but never in forward; which leads me to believe that the short is confined to something happening specifically in the Trix tender and not with the crossing itself.  Even so, the missing and cracked insulation inbetween the rails - right at the points of the diamond - still concerns me.

Have any of the rest of you seen this phenomenon on any of your crossings?  The crossing is a Walthers-Shinohara.  If the north-south rails are electrified and the plastic insulation continues to degrade, is there a likelihood or possibility of the crossing shorting out any and all locomotives, in either direction?

Thanks for the insight...

Tom

[MisterBeasley]

I'd recommend using nail polish to coat the suspect cracked and worn insulating areas.  This will restore the crossing to its "new" state.  Then you can see if that's really the problem.

Fortunately, the fashion among the body-piercing set includes black nail polish, so you can now get that to use on your layout.  When you go up to the clerk with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes and a bone in her nose ho ho and ask for some nail polish to put on your train tracks, be away that she'll think you're a little weird.

[Medina1128]

I'd recommend using nail polish to coat the suspect cracked and worn insulating areas.  This will restore the crossing to its "new" state.  Then you can see if that's really the problem.

Fortunately, the fashion among the body-piercing set includes black nail polish, so you can now get that to use on your layout.  When you go up to the clerk with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes and a bone in her nose ho ho and ask for some nail polish to put on your train tracks, be away that she'll think you're a little weird.

Any reference to Ahab the Arab can't be a bad thing. Another area to check, since you mention that only the one locomotive has the problem would be to check that all the wheels (loco and tender) are in gauge (you DO have an NMRA gauge, don't you?).

[tstage]

MB,

I had thought about clear finger nail polish.  How thin of a layer can be applied at a time?  I guess I could run an experiment to find that out.  Good idea about using black, too.

On the topic of body piercing.  Red Green was commenting about that on his show on time and said that he was waiting for someone to come down the street with a 3-ring binder hanging from their chest.  Everytime I see someone with body piercing, I always think of that comment.

---

Marlon,

Yes, I do have a NMRA gauge.  Thanks for reminding me about checking the gauge on the trucks.  I will do that.

Tom

[Johnnny_reb]

Tom, I would replace the crossing.

[tomikawaTT]

Replacing the crossing for worn insulation is overkill.  Just tell the store clerk your girlfriend sent you for hard-wearing black nail polish.

OTOH, I wouldn't have used it in the first place.  I would have built my own from all raw rail, and controlled movement through it with a 4P3T rotary switch - or some more complex (but invisible and user-friendly) circuitry.  But, that's me - and I absolutely, positively DETEST insulated frogs.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on hand-laid specialwork)

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I'd recommend using nail polish to coat the suspect cracked and worn insulating areas.  This will restore the crossing to its "new" state.  Then you can see if that's really the problem.

I've used the nail polish solution myself and it works.

[selector]

It is possible that the rear truck shifts or rotates slightly when it is moving in either direction, and when in reverse it forces the flanges downward or howeverward in such a way that they make contact with the worn spots.  You can repaint and redo eventually when the shorts become an issue (not "if" they become an issue once again), or you can get a jeweler's saw and cut gaps very close to the frogs on all four sides.  The rhomboid square is so small, if you keep the gaps tight, that locos will have no trouble getting over it.  They'll get across, straddle it, and find newly powered rails after the gap in any direction.  As part of your rewiring, Tom, it would mean feeders after every gap between the gaps and the next power-routing turnout...probably.

[tstage]

Crandell,

As mentioned in the OP, the north-south track is NOT powered.  If the short were with the crossing, the other track would have to be powered for the short to occur.

Besides the other suggestions about using black fingernail polish to coat the rails at the bottom of the crossing, I have thought about possibly "gapping" the crossing, as you suggested.  And you're right that I would need to power-route it like I did my live turnouts.

I still think the issue is with the rear tender truck of the Mike.  I'll look at it again tonight and will double-check the truck wheel alignment using the NMRA gauge, as Marlon suggested.

Tom

P.S.  If I do go with the black nail polish, my big concern is whether or not I have anything to wear with it.   Course, black is pretty neutral, isn't it...

[gandydancer19]

Do you have a Multi-meter? They can check resistance/continuity, volts, and current. It is real handy to have when working on a MRR and other wiring. By using it, you can actually check the crossing to see if it has any electrical problems. Once you eliminate those, then you can look at other areas of concern. You also might want to power up the north-south route and see if it causes a general layout short due to the missing insulation.

As for repairing the insulation in the crossing, nail polish is OK on the top of the rails, but for a more permanent fix for missing insulation down IN the crossing, I would use epoxy and force it down between the rails. Then wipe any excess off before it sets up, or just wait until it does set up and use a hacksaw blade and saw through the hard epoxy to open up the flange-ways. Check the width of the saw blade so you don't open them up too wide using the wrong width blade. You can also control the depth of the flange-ways so they are not so deep.

[steemtrayn]

How hard would it be to just refrain from backing up that one locomotive over that one location?

[locoi1sa]

  Tom

 Are you sure the mike is shorting? The power cab breaker would trip instantly if it was a short. I think what your problem is a loss of contact. You lose headlight and sound meens that the tender wheels are on the insulated part and losing contact. Either a keep alive capaciter or more pickups will solve your problem. Check the loco and tender very carefuly for missing or bent wipers or a broken wire from the tender trucks. Both tender trucks should pick up power.

          Pete