Which way do you solder your feeder wires?

[tstage]

Greetings,

I'm in the process of wiring my 4 x 8 layout for DCC.  I've already been operating DCC for 3+ years (with only two wires - It worked) but now I'm needing to wire it "legit" because I'm installing turnouts, which have live frogs.  My track bus is 14ga and my track feeders are 20ga.  

My question is: How many of you have soldered your track feeders onto the bottom of the rail rather than along the side?  And, for those who have, have you experienced any problems after the fact for doing it this way - e.g. a greater chance of broken solder joints from expansion/contraction?

It's more work and precise drilling but I really like the look of no visible track feeders.  My layout is on top of extruded foam.  The basement is generally dry but we do keep the basement humidity at 55% with a dehumidifier during the summer months.  I was just wondering if there were any real pitfalls for wiring your track this way.

Thanks for the help...

Tom

[dstarr]

   Nothing wrong with soldering to the bottom of the rail.  It's a bit more work, but heh, it's a hobby.  Do a good solder job, inspect it carefully before you lay the track, and it ought to work forever.  Especially if you put in plenty of feeders.   There was a short piece in Model Railroader about soldering to the bottom, some time ago, don't remember exactly what it said now, but MR seemed to approve of the idea.  

   I'll confess that I just finished soldering all my feeders to the out side of the rail, but I expect the ballast to hide them well.   

[skiloff]

Not sure about the sight lines, but wouldn't soldering them on the backside of each rail make them almost invisible to those watching the action?  I've seen that done and you really have to look for them to notice them.  Just a thought.

[tstage]

Not sure about the sight lines, but wouldn't soldering them on the backside of each rail make them almost invisible to those watching the action?

skiloff,

Actually, Joe Fugate does that on his layout.  I did practice soldering to the side of the rail on an old Atlas Snap turnout.  I just wasn't satisfied with the overall look of it when I was done.

One advantage to soldering to the bottom side of the rail is that you have a wider surface to solder to.  Course, you have to remove a couple of ties to do that, but they can be added back in later.  Aligning the track feeder holes seems to be the biggest obstacle to this method.

Tom

[tomikawaTT]

If you use reasonable size wire you can solder to the side of the rail and a few dabs of paint will render the feeder all but invisible.  It is much more convenient to wire trackwork that is already in place in this manner, since anything that will transfer soldering heat to the BASE of a rail will also melt plastic ties.  Using a big, hot soldering tool and pre-tinned wire I can anchor a feeder just below the rail head and never bother the plastic half a millimeter below.

How long will those joints last?  I have some that have been in service since 1980.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[kcole4001]

That's what I did, but your soldering skill has to be fairly good, and care has to be taken or the feeder soldered to the inside of the track will hinder the wheel flanges.

If you attach the wire to the underside of the rail, you have to be careful not to melt the surrounding ties.

[selector]

Tom, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.  I think if you solder them with a modicum of skill and good materials you should be okay.  The wires of that gauge will have sufficient give that they will accommodate any minute expansion problems locally, particularly if you leave a bit of slack between the rail and the bus.  Even so, we are talking parts of a millimeter at most at any one feeder. 

I am with Joe on this one, though...I solder to the back (away from the viewer) side of the rails and they don't show in any photos after ballasting and weathering...not even when I place the camera in such a way that they ought to be visible.

-Crandell

[dehusman]

I solder to the bottom of the rail.  If you get a good joint  there are no problems with it.

Dave H.

[trainnut1250]

Tom,

 I always solder to the bottom of the rail at the bench.  I use 22 gauge bare copper.  When the track is installed, I then tread the wire into holes beside the track and bury them with ballast.. 

The only drawback to this method is that it can twist the track off center if the holes don't line up undernreath the track as the feedes are pulled through.  To counteract this effect I drill holes about 1" from the track and thread the wires through after I have firmly spiked the track down. This doesn't move the track. 

The wires are then easily buried in the ballast later.  It is real easy to solder the feeders at the bench and it doesn't require the same finesse as soldering feeders to the sides of already installed track.  Of course you do have to plan ahead. 

From what I have seen of Joe's method, you would see the feeders if you sight down the track or view it from above at certain angles, this made the method unsuitable for most of my scenes.

 

You can see the feeders coming out from the track in this shot of the upper deck of my layout.

My two cents,

Guy

[UP Chayne]

i actually solder my feeder wires to the rail joints.  i use kato unitrack, so every other joint is soldered.  i know it is overkill, but like was said earlier, it is a hobby.

[Grampys Trains]

Hi Tom: I do neither.  When I was learning to solder in my late teens, I was taught to make a good mechanical joint, then solder it. So, much later in my life, when I started to install feeders, I drill a hole in the rail web, on the outside of the rail, with a #66 (.033) bit with a very light weight Skill 3/8" variable speed, cordless drill, held at about a 45 degree angle, using a very slow speed and very light pressure.  Then I drill a 1/8" hole, next to the rail, down through the road bed and sub road bed. Then I cut about a 6" piece of .025 wire, strip both ends, put a small hook on one end and insert the wire into the hole, insert the hook in the hole in the rail. Then, a touch of the soldering gun, and it's done. After painting the track and ballast, the feeder all but disappears. That's just the way I do it.

[larak]

... How many of you have soldered your track feeders onto the bottom of the rail rather than along the side?  And, for those who have, have you experienced any problems after the fact for doing it this way ...?

I too solder to the bottoms before installing the track. Never have to remove ties. Simply remove the tiny web under the rail between two ties. I have had one wire (out of over 100) come off due to very rough handling during installation. Never a problem after installation. I drop the feeders through a 3/8 hole between the rails when possible. I make the hole with a leather punch then plug it with the core after the wires are in place. Ballast hides it completely. If I forget to plug the hole I get a pile of ballast on the floor.

[loathar]

I soldered 20 gauge solid wire to the outside of the rail so it doesn't interfere with the wheel flanges. Once the track is painted, weathered and ballasted, you can hardly see them.
Besides, you can see wires welded between rail joints on the real thing. I'm just being prototypical.

[chateauricher]

I'm in the process of wiring my 4 x 8 layout for DCC.  I've already been operating DCC for 3+ years (with only two wires - It worked) but now I'm needing to wire it "legit" because I'm installing turnouts, which have live frogs.  My track bus is 14ga and my track feeders are 20ga. 

My question is: How many of you have soldered your track feeders onto the bottom of the rail rather than along the side?  And, for those who have, have you experienced any problems after the fact for doing it this way - e.g. a greater chance of broken solder joints from expansion/contraction?

It's more work and precise drilling but I really like the look of no visible track feeders.  My layout is on top of extruded foam.  The basement is generally dry but we do keep the basement humidity at 55% with a dehumidifier during the summer months.  I was just wondering if there were any real pitfalls for wiring your track this way. 

I'm guessing your tracks are already well attached to the roadbed since you've been running trains for over 3 years.

If that is true, then you may find it a bit challenging getting to the bottom of the rails to solder wires to them.  And with foam as a subroadbed, you increase the risk of dammaging the foam with your hot soldering iron.

Considering your particular situation, I would think that soldering feeder wires to the back sides of the rails would be the easiest and best solution for you.  With careful soldering techniques, paint and ballast, the wires and solder should be almost invisible.

Soldering feeder wires to the bottom of the rails is most easily done BEFORE you lay track.

 

[JulesB]

When I started I soldered a feeder to the inside of the track, don't do that any more! I use flex track so I solder to the bottom using a resistance unit on each section and cut a vee into the cork roadbed and drill a hole for the feeder, cannot see it when ballasted. The resistance unit does a good job soldering track feeders if the track is already down and to the outside of the rail, no melted ties, I set it at 25 watts.

 

Jules

 

[tstage]

I'm guessing your tracks are already well attached to the roadbed since you've been running trains for over 3 years.

 

If that is true, then you may find it a bit challenging getting to the bottom of the rails to solder wires to them.  And with foam as a subroadbed, you increase the risk of dammaging the foam with your hot soldering iron.

Considering your particular situation, I would think that soldering feeder wires to the back sides of the rails would be the easiest and best solution for you.  With careful soldering techniques, paint and ballast, the wires and solder should be almost invisible.

Soldering feeder wires to the bottom of the rails is most easily done BEFORE you lay track.

Timothy,

Thanks for your response.  Actually, since I'm installing new "live frog" turnouts on my layout, I'm pulling up my trackwork anyhow.  (It's not difficult because the track is only held in place by a track nail.)  I agree.  Soldering track feeders to the bottom of the rail is a lot easier at the bench, than on the layout.

Once I have all the feeders in place, holes drilled, and the track tested for shorts, I'll be securing the track to the roadbed with DAP acrylic caulk.

Tom

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I solder my feeders to the outside edge of the rail. That way if I need to get to them later I won't have to rip up track.

[BigG]

 Soldering to the underside of the rails is a pain if you want to curve your flextrack (that's what it's for..) . As you curve it, at least 1 rail will have to slide through the clamps on top of the ties, and if you want the ties to preserve the spacing from 1 section of track to the next, you'll have to custom-cut every rail to fit. Spot welding/resistance soldering after the track is fitted, but before spiking may help get you access to the rail bottoms, but for the agravation, I'll stick to the side and try to be neat about it. A bit of judicious paint on the solder does help hide things, as does a bit of ballast.

  Have fun...    George

[Phoebe Vet]

Grampy:

I, too, was taught in the Navy that solder should not be used as an adhesive.  Good mechanical connection and then solder it.

I would love to see some close up photos of your soldering system.

[Grampys Trains]

Hi PV: Although I was an FTG3, I didn't really have to do much soldering.  But, I did take an electronics course from DeVry Tech.  One of the projects was to build and wire a VOM. That's how I learned to solder.  Here are a couple of close-ups of a few of my Atlas CL switches. I was having problems with intermittant loss of power at the points,(the pivot points) after I painted and ballasted the track. I finally determined the problem was with the rivets. So, I drilled holes in all the point rails and added feeders to each one. I didn't try to cover these because I wanted the wires to have a little play in them, for when the points moved.  However, on regular track, the wires are very hard to spot. I'm at work right now, but when I get home I will take a couple of shots of reg. rail for you.     Edit: Here's some pics of reg. rail, the bit I use, and the drill I've used since Christmas, (my old Skil wouldn't hold a charge anymore).   

[loathar]

Grampy-Are those Atlas code83? Rivets??I thought they did away with the rivets years ago? Did you glue blocks over them to hide them? I wouldn't have guessed those were Atlas turnouts.

[Grampys Trains]

Hi loathar: No, they are code 100. They are the newer ones without the rivets. But I added feeders to them also, because even the newer ones had intermittant power problems. With the feeders, no problems.

[tstage]

Beautiful work, Grampy!   You're right.  Those feeders are virtually unnoticable.  I don't think I would have even seen 'em unless I was lookin' for 'em...

Tom

[Phoebe Vet]

Grampy:

CTM2 here.  That's an ET with a higher security clearance. 1966-7-8.

What I would really like to see is the hole and wire before soldering.

The pictures you posted are truely impressive, but then every picture I have seen of your layout is impressive.

[Grampys Trains]

Hi PV: Your wish is my command. Here they are:This is a section of track in my staging area. Edit; I just noticed the dates of your service.  I was in the Navy 10 July 66 to 9 July 68. Oh, and something I forgot to mention.  With this method, feeders can be added anytime, even after the rail is painted and ballasted, I have added a few myself.  

[Phoebe Vet]

That is a great idea.

[OhioRailroader]

On my modules, I did both. I started wiring when I first laid the track and soldered 22awg to the bottom of the rail. But I only had a few wires done before I needed to get my modules operational. So a couple years later, to get the conductivity to improve, I soldered more feeders last night. Since my track is already stuck down, I went with the side. I would much rather have them soldered to the bottom.