Okay. So lets have at it: Spiking on cork. Who here has ACTUALLY done it? Given my age and budget and available resources, I am using cork roadbed. I don't have a power saw, nor the desire to cut homasote, and don't feel like spending an arm and a leg on Homabed. The saw deal pretty much rules out luan also.
SO. Spiking into cork. Ive read recently that gasket cork, or whatever type of cork you buy in rolls at home depot or wherever is denser than regular cork roadbed. True, false?
I already have SOME experience with spiking into cork. The diorama I made used cork roadbed and code 70 rail spiked onto Central Valley tie-strips. I mashed a bunch of ties and bent even more spikes, but I think thats attributable more to my inexperience with spiking than anything else. Once I got the hang of it, it was fine. So far, I've had no issues with the spikes coming loose (except when I accidentally sort of fell against the one piece of rail that was sticking out off the roadbed) or anything.
SO. Spiking into cork. Who did it? What did you use? I'm looking more for what kind of ties you used; my only cork spiking experience is with the previously-stated CV strips. I'm building my first handlaid turnout on wooden ties that are glued onto a piece of luan my girlfriends grandfather cut for me, but thats a little too hard for my taste and as i said before, I don't have a power saw.
SO. Spiking into cork. Lets hear it. Oh, and please respond if you have actual experience. I've read all there is to read about why you SHOULDN'T do it.
DeadheadGreg wrote: Okay. So lets have at it: Spiking on cork. Who here has ACTUALLY done it? Given my age and budget and available resources, I am using cork roadbed. I don't have a power saw, nor the desire to cut homasote, and don't feel like spending an arm and a leg on Homabed. The saw deal pretty much rules out luan also. SO. Spiking into cork. Ive read recently that gasket cork, or whatever type of cork you buy in rolls at home depot or wherever is denser than regular cork roadbed. True, false? I already have SOME experience with spiking into cork. The diorama I made used cork roadbed and code 70 rail spiked onto Central Valley tie-strips. I mashed a bunch of ties and bent even more spikes, but I think thats attributable more to my inexperience with spiking than anything else. Once I got the hang of it, it was fine. So far, I've had no issues with the spikes coming loose (except when I accidentally sort of fell against the one piece of rail that was sticking out off the roadbed) or anything. SO. Spiking into cork. Who did it? What did you use? I'm looking more for what kind of ties you used; my only cork spiking experience is with the previously-stated CV strips. I'm building my first handlaid turnout on wooden ties that are glued onto a piece of luan my girlfriends grandfather cut for me, but thats a little too hard for my taste and as i said before, I don't have a power saw. SO. Spiking into cork. Lets hear it. Oh, and please respond if you have actual experience. I've read all there is to read about why you SHOULDN'T do it.
I use ties cut from strip basswood, glued (but not ballasted, until later) to cork, which is mounted on 1/2" plywood subroadbed.
The ME spikes are long enough to dig into the plywood, but small enough that they don't split the ties.
My very first handmade turnout (from an Atlas kit) was spiked into cork gasket material. Built at the bench and stored away for several years in humid Northern Virginia (no air conditioning in our older home). Went to use it a few years later, and the cork crumbled and fell away as I picked it up.
2nd experience with cork - built the Atlas Simplicity and Great Plains and Great Eastern Trunk Line track plans using cork roadbed and a mixture of flex and sectional track. Came back from a 2.5 year overseas assignment to same result - cork roadbed crumbled to the touch.
Fast forward to the late 1980s and my experience with 3 rail O. Should have known better after my good experiences with Homasote in the '70s and early '80s, but bought a box of cork roadbed anyway to install under the track to reduce noise and improve appearance. Never used the box, lived in Maryland and North Carolina. Transferred to Alaska. Opened the box to use the cork - cracked and crumbled as soon as I tried to flex or fasten it.
Sometimes I'm a slow learner. But after this many bad experiences, even stupid and cheap I equate cork with particle board. A cheap, often used substitute for the real thing with no redeeming qualities other than price. As the ad said, "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later..."
Cork is simply unstable over time, regardless of what other qualities it may have.
FWIW, my wedding present (requested) from my parents in 1971 was an electric drill and saber saw. Saber saw because it could be used instead of a circular saw if/when necessary, and I/they coudn't afford both.
just my experiences
Fred W
i would think that cork roadbed has improved in recent years....... i have pieces from the layout my dad and i built like, 10-15 years ago thats still flexible, and it was stored in our attic here in Albany, NY. So who knows.
i guess nobody really spikes into cork after all
DeadheadGreg wrote:I already have SOME experience with spiking into cork. The diorama I made used cork roadbed and code 70 rail spiked onto Central Valley tie-strips. I mashed a bunch of ties and bent even more spikes, but I think thats attributable more to my inexperience with spiking than anything else. Once I got the hang of it, it was fine. So far, I've had no issues with the spikes coming loose (except when I accidentally sort of fell against the one piece of rail that was sticking out off the roadbed) or anything.
Greg
Putting my negative experiences with cork aside - why are you spiking rail to CV tie strips? The CV system is set up to use Pliobond or Barge's Cement, not spikes. I imagine the plastic in the tie strip is going to give you difficulty spiking, regardless of the roadbed. The spike head and tie plate detail is already molded into the ties.
SO. Spiking into cork. Who did it? What did you use? I'm looking more for what kind of ties you used; my only cork spiking experience is with the previously-stated CV strips. I'm building my first handlaid turnout on wooden ties that are glued onto a piece of luan my girlfriends grandfather cut for me, but thats a little too hard for my taste and as i said before, I don't have a power saw. SO. Spiking into cork. Lets hear it. Oh, and please respond if you have actual experience. I've read all there is to read about why you SHOULDN'T do it.
The spikes you use have a large impact on your experience, as does the pressure applied to the spikes by the rail. Large spikes split wood ties more than small spikes do. There are some that believe that spiking into the wood ties by itself is sufficient - you don't need spikes reaching into the roadbed. That is probably true if your rail is prebent for curves and properly gauged without side pressure from the spikes. Having never tried glued construction, I can't tell you how much side pressure glued construction will take.
Which brings us back to cork roadbed. Spikes do insert into cork roadbed reasonably well. However, unless kept very thin, cork roadbed has a tendency to yield under side pressure. Gluing the cork instead of nailing it will probably cause less yielding, as will thinner cork. But again, relief of side pressure by proper pre-bending of the rail is probably key to medium term success with cork.
Sealing cork to some extent by gluing it to the subroadbed, and applying bonded ballast will prolong the drying process considerably. But the occasional report of wetting cork in an attempt to restore its suppleness is telling me that I am not the only one that experiences cork drying out. Atlas and others have experimented with rubber as a replacement for cork, but I think price usually wins out. I stand by my opinion that for the long term, cork roadbed is a poor choice. For the short term, it probably works reasonably well.
my thoughts, your choices
Caveat: I do not spike on cork. I spike on extruded foam - sort of.
Construction sequence goes:
The combination of card stock and two layers of caulk seem to grab the spikes and hang on at least as well as the homasote I've used. I see no reason why using them over cork should be any different.
Why grey caulk? If the ballast job is less than perfect, grey will be a lot less obvious than white or pastel pink!
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with flex track and hand-laid specialwork)