Woodland Scenics Water vs. Envirotex

[UP Chayne]

can i pour envirotex over woodland scenics water?  asking because hobby shop does not have any ws water.  they do however have envirotex.  my first pour was with ws water and need to know if i can pour enviotex over it or not.

[gandydancer19]

  to the forums!! 

I would be hesitant about mixing products unless you can do a test.  But if you don't have any more WS water, you can't test it.

If it were me, I would just order some more WS water product.  Usually the Hobby Shop will order things for you.  If not, go On-Line and order it from Walthers or someone else. 

I have used both products, and I wouldn't mix them.  The Envirotex is harder than the WS product and I would think there is a chance for them to seperate after they are cured.

[UP Chayne]

that is what i figured.  the reason i was asking is LHS is over an hour away and i fogot to get some this morning on my monthly visit.  hobby lobby usually carries it here, and if for some reason they did not have any i was just wondering if i could pour over the WS water.  thanks for the reply.

[twhite]

I'd be hesitant, myself.  Though I've heard terrific things about Envirotex, I've never had the opportunity to use it--I've used the WS water with a lot of success.  But I think that the chemical makeup of the two products is quite different, and as Gandydancer says, you could end up with a separation of the two, using one over the other. 

I'd have the LHS order you up some more WS water, since that's what you started with.

Tom

[Grampys Trains]

Hi UP:  I don't know about envirotex, haven't tried it, but I did use Magic Water over WS.  It turned out great.  I used WS Water Effects for the ripples.   

[UP Chayne]

that really does look good.  i got some WS water at hobby lobby.  got lucky and they had some. your creek there really looks great.  i am going to have to get me some of that water effects.  really does make a difference.

[larak]

can i pour envirotex over woodland scenics water? 

It worked fine for me in two out of two areas. (quit while I'm ahead?) The WS realistic water never gets hard and dust sticks too easily to it, so after cleaning, I added a thin top coat of envirotex lite. It's been there through all four seasons now and not a problem.

Karl 

[UP Chayne]

sounds good.  i dont know why yours never got hard.  mine was hard within about 3 days.  but i might still add that thin layer of envirtotex over my WS water  just to keep the dust down.  because youare right about one thing, the WS water really does attract the dust.

[Oakhurst Railroad Engineer]

I have many layers of WS water.  My logs keep "floating" up (like submarines surfacing) over time.  Do you think a layer of envirotex might stop that?

Thanks,

Marty

[UP Chayne]

did you glue your logs down before you poured your water?  i glued everything down before i poured my first layer.  that is why your logs are floating.  also, make sure your glue is dry, i mean a day or two, because i made that mistake and all of my logs had a white cloud around them.  it did however dry clear after about 7 days.  just make sure your glue is dry.  i used WS scenic glue.

[corsair7]

can i pour envirotex over woodland scenics water?  asking because hobby shop does not have any ws water.  they do however have envirotex.  my first pour was with ws water and need to know if i can pour enviotex over it or not.

Is it that they ran out or that they will no longer stock it?

If they ran out you can either ask them to reorder or go direct to Wooland Scenics and order it from them. You can find them at www.woodlandscenics.com.

If they are no longer going tos tock it, order direct.

Frankly, I've virtually given up on buying any Woodland Scenics products from the LHS. They don't stocjk the stuff to begin with and I don't feel like waiting 8 - 10 weeks for them to get it for me when I can have it inside a week direct from WS.

Irv

[UP Chayne]

this is how mine turned out.

 

 

[MisterBeasley]

I have many layers of WS water.  My logs keep "floating" up (like submarines surfacing) over time.  Do you think a layer of envirotex might stop that?

Thanks,

Marty

That's a terrific water effect.  How did you do it?

[Oakhurst Railroad Engineer]

I have many layers of WS water.  My logs keep "floating" up (like submarines surfacing) over time.  Do you think a layer of envirotex might stop that?

Thanks,

Marty

That's a terrific water effect.  How did you do it?

Log ponds tend to be dark and dirty with bark from the trees.  I sealed and painted the plywood bottom and built the banks.  I did forget to glue the "floating" logs down and that was a big mistake!

I have poured many layers of Woodland Scenics water and each time I sprinkle Woodland Scenics "fine turf - soil" to simulate the chunks and floating bark and debris. Other than the logs floating up over time, I like the way it turned out.

Marty

[clinchfield36]

Neither! "Magic Water" made by unreal Details is alot easier to work with and you dont have worries about cracking like with envirotex or the woodland scenics crap so you dont have to pour it in layers, which looks beter in the long run 

[TrampTrader]

 

I have to compliment you folks on your terrific water photos. Is there a consensus of which product produces the "best" looking,  most dust free water, or is it more personal preference ? Also, I have read that some modelers paint their water base a black rather than a deep blue to get a better effect when the water product drys, any opinions ?

 

Pete :-)

 

[Grampys Trains]

Hi Pete: I believe the general "rule" in regard to modeled water is: Paint the part of your water base a dark color, black or very dark green to give the illusion of depth, even though the base is all the same level. Then use an earth color for the "shallow" part. Try to have a transition from dark to earth, if possible.  As for water products, it seems  most people have their favorites.  Personally, I won't use WS water, so I'd recommend either Magic Water (which I've used) or Envirotex(which I haven't).

[TrampTrader]

 

DJ,

Thanks for the information. By the way, your water effect looked really great !

 

Pete :-)

[saronaterry]

I prefer Envirotex Lite. Dries rock hard and I dust it when needed with a pilfered swiffer from the CFO.

Terry

[gandydancer19]

I have many layers of WS water.  My logs keep "floating" up (like submarines surfacing) over time.  Do you think a layer of envirotex might stop that?

Thanks,

Marty

I don't think putting Enviotex over what you have will help.  What I would do is pick up the logs as they come up, then carve out the WS water where each log is to go. Then put the log in place.  Then I would screw it down to the bottom with small screws and fill the screw heads and holes in the logs, paint and weather to match.  (I don't think glue would work to hold the logs down because it would be really hard to get the WS water off of the wood base.)  Once that is done and everything is dry, I would add WS water around the logs.

The reason that I suggest doing it that way is because the WS water seems to be self-leveling, even after it is dry, and I would bet that you won't be able to tell where you added the WS water except for it not being "dirty" like the other parts.

[TrampTrader]

 

 

Thanks Guys, it sounds like Magic Water or Envirotex are worth looking at for water effects.

 

 

Pete

[GARYIG]

I know what you mean about the dust.  Gret to mold ripples and waves though.  I use WS on mine but over thin plexi to get depth.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/GIIG21/100_0589.jpg

[Autobus Prime]

 

I have to compliment you folks on your terrific water photos. Is there a consensus of which product produces the "best" looking,  most dust free water, or is it more personal preference ? Also, I have read that some modelers paint their water base a black rather than a deep blue to get a better effect when the water product drys, any opinions ?

 

Pete :-)

 

TT:

This is a tough question, actually. Under a clear sky on a sunny day, from typical model railroad viewing angles, a real body of relatively mud-free water will look deep blue or perhaps blue-green:

http://www.seed.mb.ca/images/berens-river.jpg

From very high angles, it usually still looks blue-black, but perhaps darker, and you may see the submerged shoreline:
http://wlapwww.gov.bc.ca/omr/esd/faw/stocking/amanita/amanita-aerial.jpg

Muddy waters often look brown or greenish-brown from our typical angles:
http://www.herbytoys.com/Vaca_Images/Cruise2003/BigMuddy.jpg

On overcast days, non-muddy waters look gray:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ZpMSP1Q5Wb0/RpJW49_TDRI/AAAAAAAAAI4/AdN6Yrzt5O0/Camping+July+2007+005.jpg

(This might just be my favorite look for a lake, perhaps because of where I live. :( )

Some waters flow through bogs and take on a very dark, almost black or tea color from the mosses and tree resins. Black Moshannon Lake in PA got its name for that. It's like medium-dark tea!:

http://mrhyker.tripod.com/bwf.jpg

But it generally looks blue from low angles:
http://mrhyker.tripod.com/blackmoshannonlake.jpg

Yet other creeks and rivers are polluted with mine drainage containing iron, and are incredibly bright orange near the source, darkening to deeper browns and darker colors as the oxides change:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/352039944_d512f917f9.jpg?v=0

So you can see there is lots of variety. Blue-black is always a good bet, but the best way is to go out and look.

[twhite]

I have many layers of WS water.  My logs keep "floating" up (like submarines surfacing) over time.  Do you think a layer of envirotex might stop that?

Thanks,

Marty

Marty--

Actually, that looks good to me.  Just tell anyone that asks that it's fresh pine and it takes a while to get water-logged enough to sink to the bark.  I remember log ponds up where I came from (Sierra Nevada) and the fresh-cut logs always took a little while to age in. 

I LIKE it!

Tom

[TrampTrader]

 

 

Thank You, Autobus !

 

Pete  :-)

[HarryHotspur]

I know what you mean about the dust.  Gret to mold ripples and waves though.  I use WS on mine but over thin plexi to get depth.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/GIIG21/100_0589.jpg

Nice work. I especially like your clouds in the other photos. Mind sharing your technique? Also what backdrop material did you use? Thanks.

- Harry