Everyone is faced with the challenge of choosing a scale when they first get into this hobby. But how does a person choose the right one? Most people start with the train set they got as a gift and then either stay with that scale or change to something that interests them. Often that change isn't financially possible. Unless your last name happens to be Trump (and you're on The Donald"s good side) you realize that building the ultimate layout has to be quite costly. So how do people do it?
When I was a kid, my parents couldn't afford to spend money on either Lionel or American Flyer trains. So they bought a small battery powered train set that ca,e with enough track to make a figure 8. I played with that set until the power unit fell out of the plastic locomotive shell and that was the end of model railroading for me until my first son was 3. I replaced model trains with plastic models because they were both cheap and didn't take up much space in the small apartments we lived in.
Even when I became a teenager and had my own spending money I didn't buy anything railroad related. I was stil into plastic models and that is still a hobby for me.
in 1977, I took the plunge and took my 2 year old son with me to the local hobby shop. It was called Big Daddy's and was located on Northern Blvd in Queens. I saw a great Tyco HO Scale train set which featured an ALCO C-420 in Illinois Central paint and markings and bought that. Needless to say my wife wasn't very welcoming when I brought it home. The set wasn't that great so I bought an Athearn FP-45 in Amtrak lettering and got some passenger cars with Amtrak markings as well.
It was about that time that I ran across Lynn Westcott's Ho Railroad that Grows books and decided to build that layout. Unfortunately I did not have the room to keep it permanently set up since we lived in a two bedroom apartment and my wife had soemthing against setting up that 4 x 8 in the kid's bedroom or in the living room. So I had the lumber yard cut the 4 x 8 sheet of plywood into 4 2 x 4 peices and kept them on their sides when not in use. It was pain to set up the train table and place the few accessories on the layout and make sure the track was powered. It was never a satisfactory operation so I would set up the trains on the kitchen dining room floor. I did this occaisionally until we moved into our own house in 1982.
I quickly realized that HO-Scale while it was a good size for kids, wasn't good for me in the space I have available so quickly changed to N-Scale and I have never looked back. Beside it fit in the space my wife allowed me to take over in the basement of our house.
I started with an 11 by 13 foot space and began building an N-Scale layout. I had designed something that I thought would fit the bill, but it wasn't what I wanted even though it looked good on paper. So I worked on it spasmodically and as the mood struck me. In the end, I had to scrap it because it didn't have aisles wide enough and I found that 30 inches was to far to reach into the benchwork to accomplish anything useful close to the walls. I also had to store alot of stuff in the room because we decided to reconsturct the upper story of the house from two large rooms into 4 smaller, still nice sized rooms so that we could accomodate two more children.
So while I have been reading train magazines and books since 1977, I have never had a completed operating layout. I have thought about what I want on it and have some great ideas (at least I think they are great) I need some help copming up with a layout that can be built at a reasonable price that would allow me to incorporate both operations and constant running when company comes over.
I believe I can use part of the finished basement to do this and that space measures about 20 x 30. I still need to leave room for company or for recreation useage since two of my three sons are still home. They have no interest in model railroading so I can't expoect much help from them at this point. I have some benchwork along one wall in the train room. I also have enough cars, locomotives and flex track to get started on a reasonable layout but I need a design that will allow me to experiment with various layouts. It's got to be N-Scale as I have too much invested in that to go to any other scale. I would also ike to incorporated DCC at some point though none of my locomotives are even DCC ready at this point. Everything has Micro Trains couplers.
So where do I start?
Irv
IF:
you want long trains, lots of sceney compared to tains and fair detail, go N
you want great models with fabulous detail, go O
you want a little of everything go HO
you want fabulous old time Equipment go On30
Bottom line - you need to like the scale when you look at it.
I understand that. I still like N-Scale because it is a size that allows me to run long trains and still do some of the other stuff that the operators talk about.
Some of the model railroads I've read about and seen in person are really nice and I can do something like them in N-Scale without having to buy the neighbors house and use it for model railroad purposes.
I live in Queens, NY in decent size house so puuting up a separate building on mu 40 x 100 losy is not a possibilty especially when I don't have any rich relatives to leave me a windfall.
By the way, I don't belong to model railroad club because they are either too far to travel to or meet on days when I can't go there.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Sounds like you're off to a really good start in that you're thinking about it and asking questions. As a fellow N scaler, I invite you to visit my layout website by clicking the link below my signature image. I've got a lot of information there about the thought process that went into my design, and a lot of construction images you might find helpful.
And I'm always battling the budget, so there's a lot of money saving tips for scenery and so forth.
Feel free to pm or email me if you have any questions.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Well, you have already chosen a scale. And 20x30 feet is enough to work in any scale - Z, N, HO, S, O, or G. So it really comes down to what you want to do. N is great for long trains, scenic setting, etc. G is great for building models, large engines rumbling by, etc. The scales in between trade these off at different points.
You say you want to experiment with various layouts. I'm not quite sure what you mean, but instead of a monolithic layout you could build modules using NTRAK, FreeMo, or some other standard. These can then be rearranged in a variety of layout configurations. Plus you can start small and just add modules to grow.
The only thing I can tell you about the money issue is: for a given space the smaller scales will tend to cost more if you limit your purchases to what can actually be used on the layout. This is because smaller scales allow you to have more pieces - engines, cars, buildings, turnouts, etc. on the layout. So while individual prices may be higher for the larger scales, the fewer purchases may well make them less expensive. Again this goes back to what do you want to do.
I remember at one of the late John Armstrong's clinics where, talking about scales, he said "they all cost the same, all you can afford".
Enjoy
Paul
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
While it isn't the cheapest, I would recommend HOn3, that is, HO scale models running on scale 3' gauge (10.5mm) track. My personal favorite road, the D&RGW, rarely ran trains longer than 2 locos, 30 cars and a caboose. (And most of the cars were only around 30' long, which scales to about 4") Not to mention, the generally accepted 18" radius limit for regular HO is just fine for HOn3, though I still wouldn't recommend going much lower than that. (even though with your space, I'd doubt you'll have many 18" radius curves!) And don't get me started on the scenery. Look up a video of a train on the Cumbres & Toltec or the Durango & Silverton. (Both are part of what used to be the D&RGW San Juan Extention) it will blow your mind!! You could even fit a larg sized yard on a shelf less than 2' wide.
Just sayin.
loathar wrote:Most of us would kill for a 20x30 area. (regardless of scale)
Not me Sir! The wife would get the 20x30 and I'd wind up with a 8x8 to share with a rap star wannabe.
When I was young, I had a Lionel O gauge. When I was young, I thought and acted like a child. Not that there's anything wrong with O, but, well, as I matured...
When I was a young man, I thought and acted like a young man. I didn't want toys. I had put away childish things, including unrealistic curve radii and rolling stock that fired missiles. I was ready for Model Railroading, not Toy Trains. I sold all my Lionels and bought into HO. The guy that bought my Lionels got a great deal.
And now, I am an old man, well, I'm 61, and I can't say I'm a young man anymore. (Yeah. Try to beat me on the hockey rink, even now. Go ahead. I've seen every move you try, a hundred times or more.) Anyway, the HO's came out of the attic, and they are still right for me. I love to look at N, but it's not me. My hands are too big, my eyes are too old. (But my left leg routinely kick-saves shots from guys who don't even remember Nixon.) I've got a 5x12 foot layout, and I love it. I love it so much that I want it to be bigger, but I'd say the same thing in any gauge.
There is a right gauge for you, and I can't say what it is. It depends on you, it depends on who you live with, and it depends on how much space you have. Likewise, there's a right era for you, and a right locale. World's Greatest Hobby? You bet it is.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I'd love that. however, I'm making the best of my 4x8.
I'm not going to go the direction of telling you what scale to choose, though your title kind of implies you are asking. Reading your post, you're already locked into N scale. Although.... the smaller scales have always interested a freind of mine. His collection of stuff, track, trains, track, trains and still more, exceeded (easily) 3000 pieces of locomotives and rolling stock and he did not buy junk. Microengineering track and switches. EVERYthing was converted to MT couplers and trucks before it ever saw track. Did I mention he never actually built the N scale Empire?? No? He Switched to Z scale and has been ebay'ng his N scale items (may be finished by now). Thought you might find that interesting. Point of it is, don't be afraid to make a change because you think you're 'too far into it'. There are ways of making it rather painless.
I would honestly jump into DCC right off the get go. You'll never look back. Once you get past the initial cost, that is.
For your 20x30 space, I would suggest (to get things running) a shelf design around the space. In N scale, a LOT can be done on a 12-18 inch wide shelf type design. Here is a link (click here) to my next plan. This is HO scale, the space overall is about the same as yours (perimiter) and there are no tracks beyond a 24 inch reach. If the manufacturers produced respectable models of N scale Wabash Steam engines, I'd be in N scale in a hearbeat.
Oh, How do we do it? One step and $ at a time. Your experience should tell you that these model RR empires don't materialize overnight.
I chose HO over N purely because of the modeling size - sure, i'd love longer trains in the same space, but I doubt serioulsy as I get older that I'd be able to model in that scale (eyesight wise) as well as the larger scales. I have found that HO makes scratchbuilding a bit easier for myself (and I have nothing but respect for folks that due it in N).
I would recommend one thing though, and that is to perhaps start on a smaller "test" layout before diving into the larger one. I'm doing that myself currently, and it's been frustrating, and great, to make mistakes on this before really plunking down on the main one.
The budget is also hard - being new to the hobby I've found myself spending a fair bit on tools to make my life easier, so I've spent a lot more than I had expected. For instance, I chose a DCC system that I can grow into. Hopefully these expenses will amoritze over the next few years...
I'm trying to model 1956, not live in it.
N scale is great for being able to run long trains...if you're sure that's what you want to do. Many of us find picking up and setting out cars at industries to be a very enjoyable part of operating the layout. You can do that in N but it is easier in a larger scale like HO.
Also, with N you're going to have a harder time installing DCC decoders if you go that way, and sound units...although there are a few N scale RTR engines with DCC sound now available.
Vail and Southwestern RR wrote:I'd start by getting a copy of John Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operations". the first step is to define you givens and 'druthers. Once you have that figured out, then you can start trying to design a layout to meet them.
Been there, done that. Got the tee shirt.
wm3798 wrote: Sounds like you're off to a really good start in that you're thinking about it and asking questions. As a fellow N scaler, I invite you to visit my layout website by clicking the link below my signature image. I've got a lot of information there about the thought process that went into my design, and a lot of construction images you might find helpful.And I'm always battling the budget, so there's a lot of money saving tips for scenery and so forth. Feel free to pm or email me if you have any questions.Lee
I've been thinking about for a couple of years but haven't put anything down on paper. But what I really need at this point is the discipline to get started with some kind of a track plan that makes sense and will allow for changes that I know I'll want to make as I go along. That was the problem with my last few attempts, Things just didn't work and changes couldn't be made.
Recently I have started thinking that building the real railroads was easy because teh terrain was already there and so were the towns and industries. We model railroaders have to put in the terrain, the towns and the industries to provide a rational for the railroads to exist in the first place. And the more I think abot the more I appreciate the job that God did in 6 days.
I looked at your website. WOW!!!!!!
I may take you up some DCC instalation help when I decide which system to get. I'm thinking Digitrax. None of my locomotives (primarily GP-40s with split frames) have decoders as of yet.
<You say you want to experiment with various layouts. I'm not quite sure what you mean, but instead of a monolithic layout you could build modules using NTRAK, FreeMo, or some other standard. These can then be rearranged in a variety of layout configurations. Plus you can start small and just add modules to grow.>
I decided to use the Woodland Scenics modules because of that. Simplifiles the benchwork and creating secenery is not that hard or messy. I might supplement that with L grider at some point but not right now.
The WS modules are a good place to start, but keep in mind that you're paying a lot of money for the brand name for stuff you can pick up at the local hardware or at Lowe's...
Modules are the way to go. HO is the way to go. Heres why.
SCALE .... 1- You are starting to get older if I am reading things right. I swore I was not going to get old either, but I did. And now I don't see quite as well as I used to. I had to switch to a larger scale. For me it was from N to HO. 2- Also, if you want to go to DCC, more than likely you are going to buy some new engines anyway. My dream layout was in a 11 x 13 room in N scale. It took me 10 years to complete it. Then I got old. (65). Your on the computer so you have access to eBay. Sell your N scale stuff there. (I still have to do that yet.)
MODULES .... 1- I couldn't decide on a track plan either. What I wound up doing (on the dream layout) is choosing pre-designed switching modules from the model press that I really liked, and used them for my towns and cities. I drew out the room size to scale, copied a bunch of switching module plans to the same scale, cut them out and positioned them on the room plan and went from there. 2- You have your space. Build or install a simple 6 inch shelf all the way around the room, lay some track, and start running trains. 3- Make your plan for the RR you want. 4- Build the first module and the bench work for it. 5- Stick it in your shelf area somewhere and move the track so that it connects to it. 6- Build another module and keep going from there. Then remove the 6 inch shelf and fill in between the modules as you see fit.
Budget .... Mine is $60 a month.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.