Hair-brained Track-layin idea--(talk me out of it)

[SpaceMouse]

Okay I got me an idea, but be patient I have to set it up a bit.

This weekend I was at a NMRA event and they showed some previously unseen slides of John Allen's work. Some of the slides showed John's unfinished track-work. John would hand-lay everything, because he wanted the track to go where he wanted it to go and go there smoothly. So he would lay the track and then build whatever turnout would make the transition most smooth.

A couple days ago I was thinking about my new layout potential and dreaming about the great Redwood Empire I've always held as my ideal railroad. Suddenly, I realized it meant the demise of my plans for the Rock Ridge and Train City II and I got powerful sad.

I put a lot of time and effort into that layout. It looked like it destined to dissection and the auction block. Plus I still had a pretty penny in unbuilt craftsman kits for that layout.

But then I had the first part of my hair-brained ideas. I still have the Rock Ridge portion of the Rock Ridge and Train City I. With just a little framing, I could re-lay the track I pulled up and have an 18" loop around Tater Mountain--certainly my Old Timers don't need more than that. I could frame it up pretty and be done with the "module" in no time. I could use it for a show-off piece and take it to shows and get famous like Dave V.--except that I don't have a door and my trains aren't quite so itty bitty.

Then I started laying out the track in my mind and stared thinking if I had about one more inch I could put in a single yard or staging track and I could hide it with some trees and ....but I didn't have a lot of room for turnouts on 18" of straight-away.

Then I thought of John Allen. If I came off the curve way back around the corner with a curved #7.875 turnout and wopped it over into a 19.5 radius turn, then I could run a track along the backside of the layout in both directions and have a single yard track and a staging track going out the other which way.

So I figure to make it work I'm going to have to lay out the track where I want it to go and just make it work by custom fitting everything. I figured if I was going to do that much work, I might as well hand lay the rest of the 3 x 4 loop just ta say "Take that Dave V."

So I got 2 questions:

Are ya going to talk me outta it?

I have 900 eleventy gillion popsicle sticks. Do popsicle sticks make good ties? I got a mean mini table saw.      

[Texas Zepher]

I have 900 eleventy gillion popsicle sticks. Do popsicle sticks make good ties?

Depends on how you are going to attach the track.  If you plan on spiking it, the popsicle sticks are going to be too hard to put ties in and then split too easily.   If you plan on some other method they might work.

[tomikawaTT]

Chip,

Am I going to talk you out of it???

That's the way I do ALL of my specialwork!  Bend flex along the desired routes, mark where the ties end, insert ties (medium balsa works for me.  It's a little soft, but it doesn't split,) anchored with grey latex caulk, then lay rails (2 3-point gauges plus an NMRA gauge,) connect wires and power your most derailment-prone stock back and forth through it.

Try it.  You'll like it.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on hand-laid specialwork)

[SpaceMouse]

Okay, popsticks are too hard. Dang it'll be forever before I use up this box.

Balsa, huh? Who makes a good cheap tie?

Since we are lonly talking about 10 feet of track I figured I'd just handlay the whole thing for laughs and giggles. I thought I'd experiment with code 55. If it works out, I might do the Redwood Empire in it.

What the heck is a three point guage? What kind of tollerences are we taling about with the NMRA guage?

I'm just full of questions.

 

 

[NeO6874]

I think this is (these are?) the three point gauges of which Chuck speaks

Three Point Gauge 

I'd say go for the handlaid -- there's not a better way to get the hastily-laid turn of the century branchline look to your track/ties. Although I would imagine the ME track comes pretty close, I've only seen a few early 1900s branchline photos...

use the box to make um... tunnel portals, "tie" retaining walls, and anything else you can think of that doesn't really rewuire putting fasteners *through* the sticks (maybe even skis for some people on the mountain?) 

[tstage]

Okay, popsticks are too hard. Dang it'll be forever before I use up this box.

Balsa, huh? Who makes a good cheap tie?

Although it may not be "cheap", ME and Fast tracks make a fair size bag 'o ties, don't they? 

Since we are lonly talking about 10 feet of track I figured I'd just handlay the whole thing for laughs and giggles. I thought I'd experiment with code 55. If it works out, I might do the Redwood Empire in it.

What the heck is a three point guage? What kind of tollerences are we taling about with the NMRA guage?

I'm just full of questions.

Fast Tracks has the 3-pt gauges that Chuck mentioned in both HO and N scale.

Am I going to have to do all your homework for you, Chip?

Tom

[exPalaceDog]

Okay, popsticks are too hard. Dang it'll be forever before I use up this box.

Balsa, huh? Who makes a good cheap tie?

Since we are lonly talking about 10 feet of track I figured I'd just handlay the whole thing for laughs and giggles. I thought I'd experiment with code 55. If it works out, I might do the Redwood Empire in it.

What the heck is a three point guage? What kind of tollerences are we taling about with the NMRA guage?

I'm just full of questions.

 

 

If the Old Dog remembers right, years ago, MR published an article on track laying where the rail was glues, not spiked to the ties. The system was especially intended for use with small rail like code 55. That would allow you to use the popstick ties.

As for reusing the old layout, if the Dog remembers correctly, John Allen did it himself.

Have fun

 

[vsmith]

try Basswood, its dense enough to take some abuse but soft enough to allow hand spiking, it also cuts very well, just use a fine blade saw.

[Anonymous]

If I came off the curve way back around the corner with a curved #7.875 turnout ... 

You could also use Central Valley's curvable turnout strips.

http://www.cvmw.com/cvtswitch/2700/index.htm

See the curved arrangement at the bottom of this page:

http://www.cvmw.com/acrobat/6%20crossover%20right.pdf

You might call this semi-hand laid track.

Good luck,
-John

 

[jackn2mpu]

Okay, popsticks are too hard. Dang it'll be forever before I use up this box.

Balsa, huh? Who makes a good cheap tie?

Since we are lonly talking about 10 feet of track I figured I'd just handlay the whole thing for laughs and giggles. I thought I'd experiment with code 55. If it works out, I might do the Redwood Empire in it.

What the heck is a three point guage? What kind of tollerences are we taling about with the NMRA guage?

I'm just full of questions.

 

 

If the Old Dog remembers right, years ago, MR published an article on track laying where the rail was glues, not spiked to the ties. The system was especially intended for use with small rail like code 55. That would allow you to use the popstick ties.

As for reusing the old layout, if the Dog remembers correctly, John Allen did it himself.

Have fun

 

Yup. He used his original small version of the G&D as part of his bigger layout. Not sure if it was in all 3 versions, though.

[SpaceMouse]

If I came off the curve way back around the corner with a curved #7.875 turnout ... 

You could also use Central Valley's curvable turnout strips.

http://www.cvmw.com/cvtswitch/2700/index.htm

See the curved arrangement at the bottom of this page:

http://www.cvmw.com/acrobat/6%20crossover%20right.pdf

You might call this semi-hand laid track.

Good luck,
-John

When I looked at the first picture I was skeptical. But the second picture clearly shows it working.

However, I've been intimidated by hand laying to a certain extent and I want to face that fear. When I design my basement layout. I don't want the fact that there are no commercial turnouts or Fast Track Jigs available be the determining factor of whether I can or can't have something.  

 

[jwar]

Chip.... Popsicle sticks are great scrach building supplys, Yep.... I will spend a fortune on them this summer, three grandkids, and ice cream truck, and "Kids if it dont have a stick.... sticking out of it dont order it LOL, enjoy and give granpa the popsicle sticks".

If you dont want to krazy glue or pre-drill them, they will make great bridge ties, tie loads and various floor and truss decking in and around your shops. Also at elevated log landing's to roll the logs onto cars with....John

 

 

[exPalaceDog]

The thing that would concern the Dog about Popsicle sticks is NOT whether or not they can be uised for RR ties if the rail is cemented to them (Pliobond??), but if they would take to be being dyed with satisfactory results.

Have fun

 

[SpaceMouse]

The thing that would concern the Dog about Popsicle sticks is NOT whether or not they can be uised for RR ties if the rail is cemented to them (Pliobond??), but if they would take to be being dyed with satisfactory results.

Have fun

That is not an issue. They do just fine.

[wjstix]

John Allen's first G&D was slightly smaller than a 4'x8' layout with curves as sharp as 14" IIRC. He rebuilt it as a switchback line and kept it in both later versions of the much larger G&D...although it seems to me in the final version it wasn't connected to the other trackage on the layout??  

[SpaceMouse]

John Allen's first G&D was slightly smaller than a 4'x8' layout with curves as sharp as 14" IIRC. He rebuilt it as a switchback line and kept it in both later versions of the much larger G&D...although it seems to me in the final version it wasn't connected to the other trackage on the layout??  

If I remember correctly, the twice around on the original was broken with the "main" passing through one town and a spur running up to the other. A narrow guage line was to come in at the higher elevation but was never completed. Don't take this as gospel.

[Tom Bryant_MR]

I agree with Tom (tstage). I bought a bag of the ME un-weathered ties (about 1000 of them) and stained them with RIT - brown.

I got variety in the stain color by leaving ties (handfull or so) in the stain for various lengths of time and then scooping them out with a ladle with holes in it - drop on newspaper to dry.  I did three batches using three different times.

I like the results. I think I paid $12 or less for the bag. I use them to fill in at the track joints where I cut out plastic ties.

Regards,

 

[Weighmaster]

Chip:  Years back I experimented using wood matches for ties, glued down with yellow glue.  Trim to size with your mini saw.  Rustic looking, full profile ties.  BTW, if you leave the tips on, you could simulate real brush fires along the ROW.  Gary