Steam Era Locomotive Yard (and Building/Test Yard) Layouts: Pics & Plans?

[Capt. Grimek]

I have a very limited space for an HO layout (8'X16' divided in half by a wall and door). I had been thinking about the possibility of just building a loco yard or building/test yard like Altoona, etc. so that I could run large articulateds, do a lot of operating and still have at least one run around "main line" with decent radii curves- maybe running a few "test" trains with other rolling stock.

I was excited to see the layout in the new/May MR ("Lots of Locomotives in a Small Space") when I picked up my modeling cement today as it
gave me a place to start looking into this idea. (I haven't read it in detail yet and I understand there's a minor controversy about it being custom/professionally built in another thread) but I'd like to know if anyone here has pics of or links to other's HO locomotive yard layouts and ideas for how builders tested and test ran their locos (Baldwin, Lima's yards, etc.)?

As a kid I saw one in Altoona, PA when my Father took me to see Horseshoe Curve but I don't remember much. There may have been one in Harrisburg as well?

Anything either prototypical (diagrams/maps) or especially model layouts consisting of mostly steam loco yards would be greatly appreciated if you all can direct me. I understand that British MRers often do these types of layouts but haven't found anything yet online...but have just started looking.

The only book I know of is: "The Model Railroader's Guide to Locomotive Servicing Terminals" but from the excerpts and table of contents shown at Amazon.com, it covered specific ingredients (sand pits, etc.) but possibly not the design of an entire yard/building/testing facility?.

I'm interested in any R.R. prototype (American) but will likely "proto"freelance. I'd like to consider a way to run Challengers, Big Boys, Cab Forwards, etc. in my small space as the MR article's layout owner did. There may not be room to run them otherwise on a standard layout in my space.
So...SP, NP, UP, for Western Roads, B&O, Pennsy,etc. for Eastern?

Thanks as always. Hopefully this will be the start of a thread that will help lots of other space challenged, large loco lovin' folks with sources and ideas...

Capt. G.

[dehusman]

The "test track" is normally in a building and the locomotive is "tested" standing still.  Any moving tests they put the engine on a train with a dynamometer car and run it across the railroad.

Modeling a servicing facility would be more exciting than a locomotive builder.  In a backshop the engines are moved more with overhead cranes inside buildings than they are outside..

Dave H.

[Capt. Grimek]

Thank you Dave. Do you have any specific books or other resources to recommend to me so that I can learn more?
I am always in constant awe of your ability to look over people's track plans and spot what will work and what won't and how many trips around a train would need to accomplish what the layout's intent is meant to be/accomplished.

I need to search for pics of a dynanometer car for starters. Also photos of scenes inside
a build/rebuild shop for ideas and detailing as locos hanging from cranes could be interesting. Would the book I mentioned in my original question be my best source for
servicing yard detailing? Any good DVDs maybe?

I appreciate your info. and advice.
Thanks!

Capt. G.

P.S. Would there be enough prototypical runaround/"rail fan" type track to, well...run around the room? Did the servicing/testing facilities take locos out onto the mainline for
test runs or break in periods, etc.?

I'd consider two separate layouts/layers one for a loco servicing yard and one for rail fan
running if that's what it'll take to fit into my tiny little rooms...still trying to figure out
what I want to model and operate. Just starting to attend operating sessions at round robin home layouts and clubs.

Thanks again

[tomikawaTT]

'Way back in the 50s or 60s, John Armstrong managed to cram a turntable, roundhouse, transfer table, service tracks, part of a backshop and a few ready tracks into 4x8 - in O scale!  Something similar should be do-able in HO in a few more square feet.

Mr. Armstrong's layout was published in MR, in an issue that is long out of print.  I haven't done a content search in the magazine index, but if you find it there the MR Customer Service folks can probably supply a copy of the article (for a fee, of course - but worth it.)

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[Sperandeo]

Hello "Capt. G.,"

In fact, locomotive test plants were extremely rare. The Pennsylvania RR had one at its Altoona Works, and Purdue University had one at its campus in West Lafayette, Ind., but there were hardly any others that were permanent installations. The major locomotive builders did not have them, nor did major railroads other than the PRR. This is why most railroads and builders relied on dynamometer cars for testing over the road.

When locomotives were broken in after routine shoppings, they typically were assigned to a light-duty local service that would bring them back to the shop location for final adjustments. Another option for breaking in was a slip track, where locomotives would have oil tanks placed on their pilot beams to drip oil on the rails and cause the engine's drivers to slip. In this way the machinery could be operated at normal road speeds without the locomotive traveling away from the shop.

The idea of an engine terminal layout for operating large locomotives in a small space is indeed a good one, but a search for "test yards" will be something of a unicorn hunt.

So long,

Andy

[odave]

Hey Capt.

This thread is timely - I went to my local library yesterday and checked out a copy of The Locomotives that Baldwin Built by Fred Westing.  I haven't read through it yet, but on one page there is a small picture of the track layout and buildings of the Baldwin Locomotive Works in Eddystone, PA.  Looking it over, I thought that modeling the works would be an interesting project. 

You'd get to have a lot of different kinds of steam & early diesels being built for a lot of different kinds of roads, plus the industrial switching and interchanges.  I don't have the book with me now, but it looks like the PRR cuts straight through the plant and connections with the B&O are nearby.  It's much too big for a small space, of course, but maybe you could pick out the most interesting parts, or compress the heck out of it.

 --O'Dave

[ARTHILL]

I am just adding this 5x9. It could be much smaller if I didn't want double track around it and if I used the smaller turntable and roundhouse. I could have been a 4x4 bump in the middle of a 2 foot wide shelf layout.

[Capt. Grimek]

Hi Andy, Wow, thanks for giving me that info. I appreciate it! I'm wondering if that might be the facility I saw with my Father in the late 50's early '60s. Wish I could remember more. I only have a picture he took of Horseshoe Curve on that trip as anything concrete...
By the way, besides being timely for me, I really enjoyed Mr. Bruno's layout article and would like to see a few more pics and a locomotive roster follow up if that's possible. I'm wondering if Challengers/Big Boys, Cab Forwards etc. would fit on his layout.
I also would love to get in touch with him if MR (or you?) can provide me with a contact email or phone #. Perhaps that's asking too much...
A slip track might be interesting to try modeling and something that won't be on "everyone's" layout...


Chuck I'll see if I can locate that article. Thanks very much.

ODave, if you can PM any pics that would be wonderful but if that's too much hassle or a copyright concern, I'll seek that book out at our local used booksellers. As you can see, I'm still trying to figure out the best use for my limited/strange space! I think I have seen the Baldwin book in my area and I'll look again. Something I wouldn't mind having.

Art Hill, thanks for your pics. I need ideas as I may still model more than just the servicing yard.
I've ordered the Kalmbach book: "Model Railroader's Guide to Locomotive Servicing Yards" and the Passenger guide too, which I believe was Andy's book.

Thanks everyone. Keep it coming if you have more to show or tell!
Capt. G.

[dehusman]

Thank you Dave. Do you have any specific books or other resources to recommend to me so that I can learn more?

Thanks.  Don't know about the building process, other than any histories of Baldwin, Lima or ALCO.

Here is an aerial photo of Baldwin's Eddystone works.  all that exists now is the cross shaped office building.  I grew up about 10 miles from there.

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/builders/eddystone.jpg

Modeling a commercial locomotive builder would give you the opportunity to run many different steam engines out, but they would be sorta one time moves.  Most of the business would be supplies being moved in.

If you were modeling a post 1970's or 1980's era I would suggest a locomotive rebuilder (Paducah, etc).  That way you could recieve old and new engines and have them come out in different paint schemes, different modifications, etc.

I need to search for pics of a dynanometer car for starters.

Walthers sold a model of one a while back.

 Also photos of scenes inside
a build/rebuild shop for ideas and detailing as locos hanging from cranes could be interesting. Would the book I mentioned in my original question be my best source for
servicing yard detailing?

This is probably one of the most valuable site on the internet:

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/habs_haer/hhquery.html

The Library of Congress Historical American Engineering Record site.  Search for "Railroad shops" and you will get list of documented sites of shops and other facilities.  Each entry may have photos, diagrams, maps, written documentation, etc.  Waaaaay cool stuf if you are searching buildings or facilities.

P.S. Would there be enough prototypical runaround/"rail fan" type track to, well...run around the room? Did the servicing/testing facilities take locos out onto the mainline for
test runs or break in periods, etc.?

I'd consider two separate layouts/layers one for a loco servicing yard and one for rail fan
running if that's what it'll take to fit into my tiny little rooms...still trying to figure out
what I want to model and operate. Just starting to attend operating sessions at round robin home layouts and clubs.

Think Steamtown.  they have a locomotive collection, plus an active rounhouse and operate tourist trains.  Alternate would be an equivalent to The RR Museum or PA/Strasburg.

Dave H.

[tomikawaTT]

While we were here, another thread began developing a lot of sound and fury - on the subject of a layout featured in the May (08) Model Railroader that was designed by the owner but mostly built by a professional builder.  The subject?  The Junction City Locomotive Terminal, a steam-era division point engine servicing facility with very innovative off-scene staging involving a second, hidden turntable.  The left-hand end of the track plan appears as the lead illustration on today's MR newsletter.

It certainly deserves a look or several, if for nothing else than inspiration.

Edit: The John Armstrong vest-pocket engine terminal I referenced earlier is in the February, 1953 MR - "Four by Eight Layouts."

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[Capt. Grimek]

Hi Chuck, Yes that was the layout that inspired this thread/question. I had been thinking about the steam loco service yard idea anyway and lo and behold John Bruno's layout appeared.

I'm not a subscriber though, and I have a question regarding the layout plans and track plans available to subscribers online...

Would the aforementioned service yard's track plan appear online as it does in the magazine (line drawing) or would it include graph squares and other additional measurements info.?

I find the 12" squares (for example) being shown to greatly aid my seeing how it wold truly fit into my room.

Thanks, if you or someone else here can let me know (or show a pic) of an example of M.R.R.'s track plan for the steam loco service yard, I'd like to see one.

If I could see what they look like, I'd be much more inclined to subscribe. These days, I buy issues only if the particular articles are useful to me.

[odave]

Hey Captain:

The track plans are exactly what you see in the magazine, complete with grid, in PDF format. 

--O'Dave

[Capt. Grimek]

Thanks O'Dave. Bummer, I figured (was afraid of) that :-!
I'm still thinking of incorporating some ideas from your plan too.
I've got a "new friend" from our round robin operations sessions stopping by to give me some input on the room.

By the way, I'm probably "preaching to the choir" here, but the "Model Railroader's Guide to Locomotive Servicing Yards" book by Marty McGuirk is excellent! Got it today which was perfect as I was snowbound.
I'll head for the used bookstores for more prototype steam loco yard pics soon as I can. Andy's Passenger
Yards book is also excellent. I'm really in trouble now :-0

If nothing else, finding out how persnickity it can be putting in turntables with roundhouses can be
was an eye opener! I'll have to take my "patience meds" if I put one in. :-) The book shows the Walther's roundhouse and Diamond Scale Models turntable using a PTC controller for indexing. The book is a 2001 publication. Is there something better out there in 2008 in the way of tables/controllers with foolproof operation and indexing?

What width turntable is needed or large articulated locomotives? The largest I've seen listed in the Walther's Catalog is 120 scale feet. I presume a 90' is too small? I have to go back and look to see how many inches equal a scale HO foot...




Thanks O'Dave for the magazine plans info.

[dehusman]

One foot = 87 HO scale feet.

A Big Boy is about 130 ft long. 

The big turntable Walthers sells is 130 ft long.

Dave H.

[Capt. Grimek]

d., Duh, yep, wasn't thinking, of course it's 87ft. Sometimes I make simple things so complicated.
Thank you, I was thinking 130ft. seemed about right. I just found a comparison chart for turntable widths on CMR's site. (The custom co. that made Mr. Bruno's layout) and was about to edit my last question...
Looks like I'd better start saving my pennies up. $175 to 200 for a 130-135ft. either Diamond Scale Models or CMR.

[AAnder1228]

I, too, will be working on a mostly-steam era service facility...a working diorama, if you will, until I move somewhere with more space.  I'm modelling mine in N scale and already have Walther's 130' turntable and roundhouse with add-on stalls totalling 18 stalls.  I currently have three Challengers, six Big Boys, a few Consolidateds and Heavy Mountains, as well as two Alco PAs and a PB (kind of doing the UP transition to diesel era); I've also placed an order for three more Big Boys when Athearn releases the next batch.  I also have a kit based on the 650-ton coal bunker UP had at its facility in Cheyenne, WY...the facility I'd love to model if I could afford about a dozen more Big Boys and Challengers.  And figure out how to expand a roundhouse that can have no more than 35 stalls to one with 48 stalls...LOL. 

Anyway, I came across this http://www.ausbcomp.com/~bbott/ArkCity/firemaps/arkcity/acit045.jpg link on another forum.  It's a firemap for Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe's facility in Arkansas City, KS and thought I'd use it as the starting point for my plans as it also includes the ice house and reefer icing platforms and a flour mill in the drawing.  The lower middle portion of the drawing joins up on the north end of the tracks shown on the left and the right portion of the drawing joins north of the icing facility.  If your browser software allows it, you can zoom in on the drawing to see more details.

HTH,

Allen Anderson

[Capt. Grimek]

That looks like a very cool prototype. New at this myself, I was wondering how you might decide which
main/through tracks to include seeing as you don't know what you'll end up with once you move and can add on to your layout? Trying to figure that kind of thing out for myself at the moment :-) Guess radii will play a challenging part with all of those Challengers!

Anyone else here have Loco servicing facility pics they can post of/on their layouts? (Steam era preferred but I may end up in a transition era...)

[ef3 yellowjacket]

THere was at least one that the late Mr. Sperandeo did not mention, and that one was the Midway facility on the New York, New Haven, and Hartford co.  And it was a big railroad.