Getting started with DCC

[Anonymous]

Hi,

1) It looks like DCC is the easiest was to operate multiple trains on the same line and Im wondering what exactly I need to begin with DCC (EVERYTHING i need to buy).

2) I was wondering if you can install decoders (i think thats what their called) into locos that arent or at least I dont think they are "DCC equiped." I only ever buy proto locos and thats why I ask....

3) And should I build my track first then can I worry about DCC and such? because im supposed to start laying track on sunday...

4) With regards to the track with DCC both lines and sidings on my layout can connect without needing frogs and stuff like that to separate the lines right so as one loco isnt moving when it shouldnt?

Thank you for any help you can give me!

[Anonymous]

Hello, Check out Tony's or Loy's toy's web site for info, Lay your track and get started, wiring is easier, pick up from Kalmbach books DCC Wiring made easy, It's the way to go, Have some fun with it

[dehusman]

1. You will need a power supply, a base station, a throttle for every operator, a decoder for every engine you want to operate, and plug ins for the throttles (one for every or every other operator).
2. You can install decoders in non-"DCC ready" engines. It takes a little more work to rewire and fit in the decoder than a plug and play, but its not undoable.
3. You can build the track first if you want. The important thing is wiring it properly.
4. Regarding switches, some switches are regarded as more "DCC friendly" than others but any switches can be used with DCC. You have to have whatever power routing insulation you would require for conventional DC in DCC. That may require you to put insulated joints beyond the frogs of switches depending on how they are wired. If it will work for DC it will work for DCC.

Dave H.
4.

[Anonymous]

I always thought that with DCC insulated joints were unneeded because you could have 2 locos on the same line running in opposite directions

[Anonymous]

you still want to insulate joints occasionally for block detection, transponding, and multiple power districs (Important future upgrades you may want to be ready for.)

As for starter kits, I suggest looking at digitrax.com, yes because I personally recommend digitrax, but also because there are pre-packaged starter kits that may help you understand what exactly you need regardless of who you choose.

In addition, look at the recommendation of tony's train exchange. Here is a link that should introduce you to DCC well: http://www.dcctrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm

I LOVE DCC!!! I hope you love it too.

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by platypus

I always thought that with DCC insulated joints were unneeded because you could have 2 locos on the same line running in opposite directions

They are only needed in a reversing situation. For a normal turnout, no insulated
joiners are required. They ARE use if you have separate power districts. Dave

[Anonymous]

They are also needed for block detection for signaling. Now, you can add that all later, but that means cutting track and possibly adding wiring AFTER you have completed your scenery. (Not impossible, just sometimes not practical for access, etc...)

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

They are only needed in a reversing situation. For a normal turnout, no insulated
joiners are required. They ARE use if you have separate power districts. Dave

And power routing turnouts, such as Peco Electrofrog, and Shinohara

[Anonymous]

all my turnouts are just atlas...no insulating and I dont intend on having signals or anything or powered turnouts. So do i NEED to insulate anything...I dont know what district blocks are. I just want to have 2 main lines with lots of sidings all connected (like one big line I guess no insulation) and a loco on each siding either moving or not. So is insulation needed?

[Anonymous]

You need to look at the turnouts. If they are insulfrog, then there is no real reason to insulate blocks in your situation. However, there are some turnouts that will require modification, and in the past I have accomplished a workaround by insulating the frog side and powering from the thrown point to the frog. This is not a good solution, and with DCC you may need to change to insulfrog turnouts. (You will be running full power AC through the rails, the frogs are a big issue and cause shorts unless they are properly insulated.)

Take a look at some of the recommendations of how to modify your turnouts. (Guys, I can't find the link I used to have to the website that shows this in detail. Can someone help out here?)

Keep asking questions, and good luck.

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mdemt

You need to look at the turnouts.

No worries with Atlas turnouts. [:D]

[Anonymous]

they are not insulfrog....no matter which way the turnout is switched If I have a loco on the mainline and the siding both move when I use my old power thingy

[dave9999]

Let me simplify this a little. No, you don't need to insulate using Atlas turnouts.
A power district is a isolated section or track that is powered by it's own booster OR by using a PM-42 to divide the power from a single booster. With separate districts, if you get a short in one section it will not shut down the entire layout. Dave

[Anonymous]

You won't need to isolate right off the bat, if your latyout is small. but you will have to do some common blocking for returning loops and certain crossovers, luckily there's DCC modules out there to handle these without using toggle switches.

As for a DCC system, I just got the NCE powerhouse Pro, and I love it. the throttle is easy to use, the entire thing is simplistic in nature. I tried the digitrax out and it was horrid, the Lenz was good. I didn't try a zimo out, since no one had one here.

Until you get a handle on decoders and how to install them, i suggest you talk to Tony at Tony's Train Exchange (http://www.ttx-dcc.com/). Call him and talk to him about all your questions and such, he's very friendly and won't badger you into buying somehting you don't want. and if you really want something, there's a good chance he has it. Heck yuo can even send him your loco's and he'll install the decoders for you.

Jay

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NTDN


I tried the digitrax out and it was horrid

Jay

Jay,
Please define "horrid", as this seems a strong comment about, IMO, a quality system. Thanks, Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999
Jay,
Please define "horrid", as this seems a strong comment about, IMO, a quality system. Thanks, Dave

Horrid: innately offensive or repulsive, inspiring disgust or loathing .

gee didn't think i'd have to define words here [:p]

as for the Digitrax system, i didn't like the feel of it, nor did i really like the pushy people pushing it. Beside the NCE Powerhouse pro is much better and feels much better.

Jay

[Anonymous]

I think he meant, "Why do you think that it is horrid?"

[dave9999]

QUOTE:
QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999
Jay,
Please define "horrid", as this seems a strong comment about, IMO, a quality system. Thanks, Dave

QUOTE:
Horrid: innately offensive or repulsive, inspiring disgust or loathing .

gee didn't think i'd have to define words here



as for the Digitrax system, i didn't like the feel of it, nor did i really like the pushy people pushing it. Beside the NCE Powerhouse pro is much better and feels much better.

So, let me make sure I've got this.
1. YOU didn't like the "feel" of it, therefore it's "horrid".
That's a pretty strong argument you've got there........NOT.
2. YOU didn't like the pushy people pushing it, therefore it's "horrid".
Weaker than the first. I'm sure NCE is glad you're not their spokesman. Dave

[Anonymous]

Come on guys, be civil. We are all in this hobby to have fun.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

So, let me make sure I've got this.
1. YOU didn't like the "feel" of it, therefore it's "horrid".
That's a pretty strong argument you've got there........NOT.
2. YOU didn't like the pushy people pushing it, therefore it's "horrid".
Weaker than the first. I'm sure NCE is glad you're not their spokesman. Dave

Hey if you like the Horrid feel of Digitrax, then by all means use it, I'm not saying you have to rush out and spend money to buy a better system. I tested the NCE, the Lenz and the Digitrax, out of all of them, the Digitrax was the worst controller. and when you factor in it's price versus specs, it failed miserably against the other two there as well.

I'm not pushing NCE on anyone, I'm a big avocate of people doing research and testing and not just buying something because that's what the local Club uses so they feel they must have what the club uses.

And yes alot of people are very pushy on the digitrax (in certain store and alot on the forums), woe be the one who asks about another system, they'll get harrassed and badgered that they should by it over any other system. yet those that own other systems readily will tell you to try other systems and get a feel for what you like.

Sorry dave, I guess i should have expanded my simple "Horrid" Statement so you could better understand my position.

Now that that's over with, let's get back to talking about the subject.

Jay

[Anonymous]

I know this Digitrax thing gets a little emotional sometimes, but it is because once you are on the system, you start to see the difference.

I have also tried the other systems out there, and sure, I too have some issues with ALL of them. But my local support surrounds Digitrax, and we here have had great success and excellent expansion thanks to Digitrax hardware. The LocoNet add on capabilities alone, not to mention the various prototype driven modules, etc.. have all added to our positive experience.

So sometimes it becomes personal with some people. No one wants to have made the wrong decision, or more importantly, most people want to have made a better decision. But to each his own.

In short, DCC is growing... period... There are cheap systems that have to cut something out in order to be cheaper (fact of life.) There are more expensive systems, but they may have more up front research and development, or more built in options, etc...

Personally, I would like to see controllers that allowed you to switch through multple cabs, or have 4 "throttles" on the same handheld.

But I always say, if your going to get into the technical side of modeling, find what you can get support for in your area. It doesn't matter if it's DCC, or if it's high end layout building in general. IF no one in your area supports Digitrax, but someone does have a great working understanding and resource for Lenz, then your decision should lean that way.

But for everyone's sake, let's all acknowledge that there will be emotional attachments, and not SLAM any other system with inflammatory statements that may completely mislead a newcomer. Just state your reasoning, perhaps it is really subjective and they need to consider all of their options. (It would be terrible to think that they live NEXT to a Digitrax enabled Club that they find the day after their Atlas DCC stuff arrives, or vise versa.

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NTDN

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

So, let me make sure I've got this.
1. YOU didn't like the "feel" of it, therefore it's "horrid".
That's a pretty strong argument you've got there........NOT.
2. YOU didn't like the pushy people pushing it, therefore it's "horrid".
Weaker than the first. I'm sure NCE is glad you're not their spokesman. Dave

Hey if you like the Horrid feel of Digitrax, then by all means use it, I'm not saying you have to rush out and spend money to buy a better system. I tested the NCE, the Lenz and the Digitrax, out of all of them, the Digitrax was the worst controller. and when you factor in it's price versus specs, it failed miserably against the other two there as well.

I'm not pushing NCE on anyone, I'm a big avocate of people doing research and testing and not just buying something because that's what the local Club uses so they feel they must have what the club uses.

And yes alot of people are very pushy on the digitrax (in certain store and alot on the forums), woe be the one who asks about another system, they'll get harrassed and badgered that they should by it over any other system. yet those that own other systems readily will tell you to try other systems and get a feel for what you like.

Sorry dave, I guess i should have expanded my simple "Horrid" Statement so you could better understand my position.

Now that that's over with, let's get back to talking about the subject.

Jay

Jay, Jay, Jay!!!
I was gonna let a sleeping dog lie die. In a lot of post I have said some things about the Prodigy system. But in every instance, I have given a lucid, informed response as to why I prefer Digitrax. I have never called it "horrid" or
anything similar. Now I don't give a rats a** what system someone decides
to purchase, but I will state the pros and cons. And they will be more in-depth
than " I didn't like the feel of it " and it's "horrid" because of that. Although I have not experienced the NCE system, I have seen the Lenz system in action. Both Lenz and Digitrax are excellent systems. And I'm sure NCE is as well. They are
all leaders in the field of DCC.
So in closing, I apologize if this got a little out of hand, but the horrid comment kind of rubbed me wrong. Dave

[Anonymous]

I dont mean to interrupt but I just saw a post someone made saying that with DCC you can literally run two locos on the same track independant of each other...so WHY do i need plastic railjoiners and insulfrogs and stuff like that?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by platypus
WHY do i need plastic railjoiners and insulfrogs and stuff like that?

well certain sections of the track (IE reversing loops, certainc rossovers, ect) would require it to keep shorts from happening.

another reason is if you have to many amps going on the track (IE you have a 2 amp sytem and are trying to run 12 loco's on it), you'd rather block it and have a seperate power booster for each section to increase the number of trains you could run at once.

Jay

[Anonymous]

I will have max. 3 locos on the same line, no reversing loops, no funny business...so i guess that means no insulfrog no plastic railjoiners...



OR perhaps because I have 2 small mainlines which are connected, will I need to insulate where both lines connect or can locos freely travel from any siding to any line??

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by platypus


I have 2 small mainlines which are connected, will I need to insulate where both lines connect

No.

QUOTE:
can locos freely travel from any siding to any line??

Yes

Dave