Planning a 24" wide HO shelf layout around a 12X12 area in "walkout" basement with walls on 3 sides, [deeper than 24" in corners].
Benchwork will need to be free standing on two sides, [not fastened to wall]. New home, two of the outside concrete walls have white finished thick insulation blanket insulation hanging directly on the concrete wall. 3rd wall is frame 2X4. Not sure yet on benchwork, L gider, box frame, or maybe steel studs?
Can you use foam directly on top of benchwork without a plywood base? Would seem that like homasote, there would be a need for some strength, plywood, under the foam?
My current thinking is homasote on top of plywood, to permit spiking flex track directly onto homasote. I am reluctant to glue track as it limits flexability for minor adjustments. Laying track on cork raises the track up so high?
Thanks
There are a lot of threads on this that you can search for.
I use 2-inch foam on metal shelf brackets for a shelf layout. No wood at all. I do use Masonite for splice plates below where the foam sections join, but that's it.
Hi,
My first large layout many years ago was homasote on plywood supported by L-girder bench work. My new layout under construction is being made so it can be moved if necessary, so I wanted it light weight. I am using 1x2 box bracing with quarter inch luan glued on that, and one inch builders foam on top of the luan. The facia is a 4 inch wide paneling strip. The sections vary from 18 to 24 inches wide with a length from 4 foot to 7 foot long. This is so I can get them through a doorway. This is a new type of construction for me, but it seems to be working out well so far and is fairly light in weight. The continuous luan sheet under the foam allows for easy installation of switch machines because they can be attached to the luan. If you use just the builders foam alone, you will have to glue small thin plywood squares to the bottom of the foam to hold the switch machines in place. (2x4 or so by 1/4 thick) I have done that before and it can be done and works well. I use 5 minute epoxy for that. I have also considered using steel studs, but I have a lot of experience with wood and it is more comfortable for me.
I am using WS (Woodland Scenics) foam roadbed glued to the foam surface, with the flex track (in most places) glued to the roadbed. I am using tan colored latex caulking for cementing the foam roadbed and track. Most track work should be planned out in advance if possible. I am not a fan of snap track or track sections, however, I have decided that I need to use it in places where curves are critical and tight so it doesn't stress the foam roadbed. This allows me to insure that the curve is correct before I glue down the roadbed and track. If the tight curves are correct, then the trains will run through them OK. I usually put in the curves and turnouts first, then the straight flex track sections, adjusting the roadbed and flex track to fit.
The track should be laid on some type of roadbed. Either cork or WS foam roadbed, and you are right, it does look high. But this simulates the heavy ballast contour of the mainline and gets the track up out of the dirt and grass that will be applied later. Tracks in yards and industrial areas can be right on the foam surface as they have less ballast and are lower on the real RR's anyway.
Incidentally, ballast is part of the scenery process, not track laying. So lay you track and get it wired up and then apply the ground. I use a brown fine ground foam over brown paint. (Just choose the color of paint and ground foam you like.) Then apply your ballast, then you can go for roads, buildings, and greenery.
Hope this helps,
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
My current shelf layout uses brackets spaced at 4 foot intervals with a 1x2 L-girder supporting the foam. I am using 2 layers of 1.5 inch foam. I like to use 2 layers so that I can cookie cutter the top layer to create minor elevation changes. The next time I do this I will use 2 inch on the bottom and 1 inch on the top. I like to use 100% foam because penetrations are quick and easy to do with a wooden skewer.
Using the L-girder I find that the whole thing is very sturdy and stable. I don't know why you would need to 'lean on' the layout considering the shelf is only 2 feet wide, but I believe you could certainly do that on my construction.
A consideration here is how to attach a fascia panel. I haven't done that yet but I believe that gluing a masonite fascia directly to the foam should work. If not I can attach some wood brackets to the existing L-girder.
George
djb39 wrote:Planning a 24" wide shelf layout around a 12X12 area in "walkout" basement with walls on 3 sides, [deeper than 24" in corners]. Benchwork will need to be free standing on two sides, [not fastened to wall]. New home, two of the outside concrete walls have white finished thick insulation blanket insulation hanging directly on the concrete wall. 3rd wall is frame 2X4. Not sure yet on benchwork, L gider, box frame, or maybe steel studs? Can you use foam directly on top of benchwork without a plywood base? Would seem that like homasote, there would be a need for some strength, plywood, under the foam?My current thinking is homasote on top of plywood, to permit spiking flex track directly onto homasote. I am reluctant to glue track as it limits flexability for minor adjustments. Laying track on cork raises the track up so high? Thanks
Planning a 24" wide shelf layout around a 12X12 area in "walkout" basement with walls on 3 sides, [deeper than 24" in corners].
I am planning something simular. A narrow around-the-walls layout in the downstairs guest bedroom that still allows the occasional guest. I am making up angle brackets from plywood, 1*2 and 2*3 stock, joined with dadoes. They will be screwed to studs. I want to make the surface of the layout from 2" builders foam to allow some surface conturing like for culverts and such.
I would like to be able to hand lay track, partly cause it looks cool, partly cause it's fun, and I have the time. And you can do fancy slip switches and curved turnouts and stuff. Foam won't hold spikes and so the hand lay parts will need a real roadbed cut from soft pine or bass wood or homasote. I'm leaning toward pine or bass wood on account of cutting homasote makes an awful mess. And the cut edges come out rough. Plywood is too hard to take track spikes well, the glue layers are so hard the spikes bend over when you drive them with pliers. You can buy ready made roadbed, but I lean toward making it. I plan on just cutting the roadbed with a sabre saw and leaving the edges at right angles. I'll get the slopey angle with something like drywall mud or latex caulk.
Foam is soft and the edges will crush when leaned upon. I plan on 1*4 wood frames for edge protection and 1/4" plywood bottoms for the frames. The plywood is cheap, gives something for the foam to set upon, and something to fasten under table switch machines too. Plus it stiffens up the 1*4 frame, yielding a stiff module that can be removed to the shop if necessary.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Hi.
On my layout I started 2 months ago I built 4 frames from 1/2 inch Maple/Birch plywood that I cut into 3 inch wide strips and used 1 inch square blocks in the inside corners. I used 2 inch pink foam board on top of the frame. If I can figure out how to post pics here I will post several showing how I built my frames...........4 frames 2 at 2 foot by 6 foot and 2 at 4 foot by 6 foot for a layout size of 6 by 14 feet.
I also biult legs that are permanantly attached to the frames by hinges and latches.
I`m also using the woodland Scenics foam risers and incline sets.
The design was from a guy named Ed Blumenshine from a book Model Railroader published a few years back called the Wawbeck and Sunmount....with a few changes I have made.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
Nucat78Gandydancer19 [Elmer]Olequa [George]Traindaddy1Dstarrrdgk1se3019 [Dennis]
Thanks for all the great suggestions for my HO project, very helpful. I have saved this thread to disk and plan to use some of the ideas. I especially like the light weight, movable 1X2 box frame, 1/4" plywood, and foam suggestion. Thanks again for your help.
There was a 3-part article by Don Spiro in the Sept./Oct./Nov. 2005 issues of Railroad Model Craftsman that concerns a shelf layout. The Sept. part is planning, and the Oct. issue gets into the construction using wall-mounted shelf units from the hardware store. I followed this concept in the construction of my shelf layout last winter, and it worked very well. My shelf is 24" deep in most places, and down to 18" along one wall. That creates nice space underneith for bookshelves holding the RR magazines and guidebooks.
I'm still a Homasote fan; I don't think that it can be beat for holding spikes. I live in a high-humidity area (I can often hear the ocean from my yard), so I let the Homasote sit in the garage for about two months to adjust before applying it. No problems seen, and it has been in place about a year. I used Masonite screwed to the front of that 1x2 frame piece for the fascia.
Bill
Beach Bill wrote: There was a 3-part article by Don Spiro in the Sept./Oct./Nov. 2005 issues of Railroad Model Craftsman that concerns a shelf layout. The Sept. part is planning, and the Oct. issue gets into the construction using wall-mounted shelf units from the hardware store. I followed this concept in the construction of my shelf layout last winter, and it worked very well. My shelf is 24" deep in most places, and down to 18" along one wall. That creates nice space underneith for bookshelves holding the RR magazines and guidebooks.I'm still a Homasote fan; I don't think that it can be beat for holding spikes. I live in a high-humidity area (I can often hear the ocean from my yard), so I let the Homasote sit in the garage for about two months to adjust before applying it. No problems seen, and it has been in place about a year. I used Masonite screwed to the front of that 1x2 frame piece for the fascia.Bill
To: Beach BillTell me a bit about the support under the homasote. How far apart on 24 inch deep shelf is the support? I will need to use box frame as a good deal of my shelf cannot be attached to the wall due to hanging insulation blanket on the concrete wall. The blanket is finished on the showing side, and look nice, so why take it down, do studs, nd reinsulate. Thanks
I used a box frame attached to wall brackets and then topped by a three layer laminate of 1" foam. The layout is 9 x 12 and around the room with benchwork extending to a max of 24" wide. This produced a benchwork that is very strong.
To: LNEFAN [Tom]Looks very good! Photos helpful. In the photo, "LNE11-12-076.jpg", is the track glued right on the foam or on cork or foam roadbed?
To: BigRusty, thanks also for the reply
Yes, the track is glued directly to the foam. This area is yard/industrial so I did not use roadbed. I will use fine dirt/sand etc. for ballast as was/is the practice of many railroads. The mainline and sidings are Peco Cd 83 glued to cork roadbed. In all cases (cork to foam, track to cork and track directly to foam) I used clear adhesive caulk which was easy to work with and produced a great bond. I did paint my cork roadbed flat black only because eventually the ballast will be mostly black since the railroad I model originally used coal or coal tailings for ballast.
The link below my name leads to more pictures of my layout.
LNEFAN,
I followed the link in your signature to your photos of your layout and the construction of it was just what I have been looking to find, in a round about way. As I plan to use Foam board in my own layout. But I must say that your photos of the "Lift-out" that you made are great.
One question or two;
With your workbench under the layout have you found that the room above it is adequate for your needs?
And I noted that you glued your foam to the benchwork framing, did you use any nails or pins of some sort to keep the foam from moving while the glue set?
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
Tom:
Looks very nice, it looks like Woodland Scenics incline set. Good way to go. I am going to try to fit a riser and track over track cross over on mine. I did this once before with a 3" rise. I think the woodland scenics risers require 12 ft to rise 3 inches at 2% & at 3% takes 8 ft. I hate to go 3%, but don't see how I can fit the space to run up and back down at 2% with my space situation. Did you ever compare cork to Woodland scenics foam roadbed?
The workbench area is "ok". But just ok. I really could use more space. If needed I would leave all as is however I do have a room directly across the hall from my layout room that I plan to convert into a workshop. That room will accomodate all my tools, storage and building area needs. I also want to purchase a few model sized power tools and this new room arrangement will make that possible. That will be a "next fall" project. I used weights only to hold the foam while glueing and I used Gorilla Glue and Elmers Ultimate. This proved to work fine. Incidentally, my layout is a variation (permanent benchwork-similar trackwork) of the HOG layout concept found here: http://www.layoutdesignservice.com/lds/samples/betterbeginnerlayout.htm I would think Woodland Scenics roadbed is fine however I had used cork in the past so stuck with that. Vinyl roadbed also looked very interesting. Especially since it comes in different heights. http://www.vinylbed.com/default.asp