So I started to create the curves out of my ME code 70 track. I'm able to get the radius down, its just that I can't seem to find a way to eliminate a problem in the tie spacing. Towards the curved end, a section of ties get REALLY spread apart, and theres a section of ties that gets squished together. Haven't been able to figure out how to create the curve without having this happen. ive done lots of searching, and havent found any discussion about this problem. I forget who it is, but someone posted a picture of their layout with 3 tracks parallel to each other that were curved and were ME flex, and the track looked perfect.
is there a specific way to go about forming the curve on this flextrack?
Parallel curves like this?
After I get the track curved how I want, I run my index finger over the ties, between the rails while putting some pressure down onto the ties. They will creep in the direction of your finger's travel; it takes some fine tuning and adjusting to get the ties back to proper spacing. After all, this isn't Atlas flex track that you're working with....it requires a small learning curve and the ability to adjust to a new process of shaping the curves.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
Yeah it seems to be the webbing beneath the rails that attaches the ties to each other that creates this problem with ME track, even when your curves are quite broad. You can sever the webbing with a knife or saw.
When trying to "squeeze" those errant ties into place remember not to screw up the gauge -- perhaps the RibbonRail track gauge things would help.
Dave Nelson
Greg,
A few tips from my experiences with this track:
1. Don't try to bend it to the full curvature in one pass. Start out by bending a little at a time over the complete length of the curvature. Go back and repeat as necessary to get the curve you want.
2. The key to bending ME well is in the ties. Keep the ties relatively perpendicular to the rails as you bend. Grasp the ties on both ends from underneath and gently nudge them back to perpendicular. Bend a little, straighten the ties. This will have the effect of evening out the curvature as well as preventing the "spread out ties" problem.
3. Keep sighting the track down the length of the curve to keep the degree of curvature even and to avoid kinks. Often I will get the curve radius I want and then fix the errant ties to make that near perfect look. Be careful not to put any downward pressure on the ties or they might pop off the rails (rare, but does happen) I usually have my center line board with various radii centerlines drawn on it to keep the radius correct. Bend some, check against the centerline. Repeat. Ribbon rail guides won't work until you have bent the piece pretty close to the correct radius.
Seeing this on paper makes this sound a lot harder than it actually is to do. Once you get the hang of it, things go pretty quick. Weathered is harder to bend than unweathered track. Patience and perserverence will pay off in great looking trackwork.
Two other tricks I like: For a cleaner look, ME Code 70 joiners on code 83 rails (yes they will fit, remove the burrs from the rails) N scale joiners on Atlas code 83. Solid copper Feeders can be soldered to the bottom of the rails laying on the bench and then fed into holes in the layout surface after the track is set. Easy to hide in the ballast and a lot easier than the "feeder soldering dance" (don't melt the ties) after the track is installed.
Your Mileage may vary,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Yes! thank you don, i couldn't remember that it was you. Basically what I've been doing is using a couple pieces of eztrack pieced together and then placing my learning piece on top and making sure that the eztrack rail isn't seen, that the ME rails are directly on top of them. I've made a little more progress; i didn't realize that A) there is a sliding rail (whichever way the flextrack is bent; if you are bending it to the left, then the left rail will slide longer, and vice versa) and B) that there are places where the ties aren't connected to each other, that there are some gaps.
Don, do you recommend then that I should just keep the joints perpendicular, and not stagger them, even on curves? In your picture, the joints are even. Also, is there an ideal place to start forming the curve? Like, do you start at the end, or in the middle? Or would you recommend starting from a straight piece, like having a straight piece layed down on the roadbed, and then connect one end of the piece to be curved and go from there?
Let's see if I can answer all of your questions so you'll understand....regarding the joints you see in my photo - they actually are staggered just a bit. I soldered 2 sections together before I made the curves in the photo. The double curve helped to all but eliminate the sliding rail creep. If you look at the left most curve, you'll see that the ends aren't even due to the rail sliding. When I attached the next piece of flex to that end, I trimmed the rails even and then soldered the new piece to them. That may not be the way the experts lay their track, but I have no kinks in the curve and I don't have any derailments with my track work.
When starting to curve a piece of flex, I do mine both ways - sometimes I will attach the flex that I want to curve to the previous piece of flex that is in place on the roadbed and start to shape the curve. I have on occasion, formed a curve freehand, working it until the curve matches what radius I need at the time.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
The RibbonRail track gauge is a good suggestion. After coaxing the track into more or less the desired shape, I carefully insert a gauge of the radius I want and slide it along. Note the words "coaxing" and "carefully."
John Timm
yeah Don thanks a lot. I didn't see the staggered joint at the end of that piece. But let me ask you this: are you going to leave it as such, or are you going to trim it down to be even? Also, what did you use as a guide to curving the track? Did you just set it on the roadbed and curve it until it matched what you needed?
im thinking that i might use some old atlas flextrack and lay that first on the actual layout, to get practice and then take it out to use the ME flex that will be the permanent track.
desertdog: SWhere did you get the Ribbon Rail guages? I haven't been able to find them anywhere, even on ebay
DeadheadGreg wrote: desertdog: SWhere did you get the Ribbon Rail guages? I haven't been able to find them anywhere, even on ebay
I ordered them (Ribbon Rail gauges) through my LHS. Walthers stocks them. They come in several radii. I have 5 or 6.
Here is the Ribbonrail entry in the Walthers online catalog
http://www.walthers.com/exec/page/manuinfo/v170
In addition to curve templates they also make tangents and those are very helpful too -- I was able to buy a package of mixed radius and tangent lengths at a good price at a swap meet.
oh ok cool. i was actually thinking of making something out of plywood.... by taking a big sheet, maybe 2x3 feet or something, and cutting it in half with a semi-circle in x" radius. So that way its like an interlocking semi-circle. Then, I would put the track in between the two, and then simply press them together, to curve the track.
think that would work?
DeadheadGreg wrote: oh ok cool. i was actually thinking of making something out of plywood.... by taking a big sheet, maybe 2x3 feet or something, and cutting it in half with a semi-circle in x" radius. So that way its like an interlocking semi-circle. Then, I would put the track in between the two, and then simply press them together, to curve the track.think that would work?
Hmmm. I'm not sure it would. You mean, cut one curve, pull the pieces apart, put track in between and force them back together to force the track to the same perfect curve? For one thing cutting that precise a curve in plywood is no easy task.
Without having a piece of paper and sissors at my side as i write this, it seems to me the radius is a little different on the outside curve of the ties (or the cord roadbed if that is what you are trying to lay to a perfect curve) than on the inside curve. If you think of HO track as about an inch wide to the ends of the ties, then you have two radius curves, not one, don't you? (No one will mistake me for a mechanical engineer, or even a very good geometry student in high school).
Try it with a sheet of cardboard or some other product cheaper than plywood as a test. Maybe try it with a piece of curved radius snap track so you know readily how it looks. Somehow I suspect it might not work.
But don't drop the idea entirely. Instead of using two curved pieces to come together and force the track into the desired curve, it could be effective to do this with the curve on just the outside (or inside) of the curve and make the track snuggle up to that hard edge. Remember that the numbered radius is at the center point of the track not the end of the ties.
The Ribbonrail jigs are not really templates per se but are aluminum pieces that fit between the rails. So you slide them between the rails of flex track to create a tangent or a curve.
Seems to me the real issue is radius of the roadbed.
What I did was to take a long stick of wood, drill a pivot point at one end, and then measure from there at various distances, marking them with a pencil, and then drilling a 1/4 inch hole at each point. A friend of mine who drives a truck was able to salvage some really large sheets of thin styrene from a company that makes signs -- these were misprints. Fastening the stick at the pivot point so that it can swing on its axis, I put a pencil in the holes and swumg the stick on its axis over the plastic, marking my double track radius on the large sheet of plastic (which I had taped down) with the pencil in the holes. I made two curve templates: 38" and 40" radius, and 40" and 42" so I have 2" centers on the double track curves (the centers can be the same in such large curves as well as tangents - tighter radius cannot do this due to interference). It is vital that neither the sheet or the pivot point move of course.
I then took strong sissors and cut out the plastic that follows this curve, to create true templates. The edges are centerlines. I use these templates as center lines; tape them down and draw along the edges on the table top and then use those centerlines to fasten the cord roadbed. Then when laying the track it is just a simple matter of having the center of the ties match the center line of the cork roadbed halves. I do use easements at curve ends but that is a discussion for another day. I use the templates over and over again (taping them in place to draw the center lines with a pencil directly on the benchwork top). I marked the templates to remind me which curves they are.
I also built a tangent template, basically a two inch wide board.
So when i use the Ribbonrail curve jigs to curve my flex track, what I am really trying to do is to match the curve that has already been created on the roadbed. And I can tell you that while I know my roadbed is exactly at 40" and 42" radius curves, using the Ribbonrail curving jigs of that radius does not necessarily create an exact match. It is very close but still calls for some "human intervention."
I think Ribbonrail also makes the upsum board precut roadbed pieces cut to a precise radius. This would give a precise curve if that is what you seek. You might have to "kerf" an end to create an easement curve into a tangent.
Wow, thanks for the big reply. My main issue isn't figuring out the radius of the curves and drawing them out, I can do that no problem. The issue is just getting the ME flextrack TO that radius. I just don't feel confident enough in myself yet to go ahead and attempt it outright; I don't want to screw up the track that I've got, because ME isn't cheap.
i suppose i should finish my track plan first.... hehe. Its amazing how much time can fly by when you're fitting turnouts on your layout trying to figure out how everything could work out lol
DeadheadGreg wrote: yeah Don thanks a lot. I didn't see the staggered joint at the end of that piece. But let me ask you this: are you going to leave it as such, or are you going to trim it down to be even? Also, what did you use as a guide to curving the track? Did you just set it on the roadbed and curve it until it matched what you needed? im thinking that i might use some old atlas flextrack and lay that first on the actual layout, to get practice and then take it out to use the ME flex that will be the permanent track.
Sorry for the delay in answering...the last few days I've been so sick even my wife was ready to start shoveling dirt on me. As I stated previously, I would solder 2 sticks together and work my curve as needed. The end with the staggered joint in the photo was trimmed almost even and then another stick was soldered to the piece in the photo and then the curve was shaped to continue as needed.
I highly doubt you can shape ME track by squeezing it between two templates....if you have your centerlines drawn and your roadbed in place, use the roadbed to guide the shaping of the curves. Start at one end and start making the curve in small adjustments the entire length of the piece; then go back and repeat until it is at the required radius. My opinion is you're trying to make this much more difficult than it actually is.....what's the worse thing that could happen? You destroy a $5.00 piece of flex....learn from your mistake and life goes on....
By the way, the curves in the photo don't even exist on my layout anymore.....they were all removed as I refined my operations/track plan.
Don Z wrote:My opinion is you're trying to make this much more difficult than it actually is.....what's the worse thing that could happen? You destroy a $5.00 piece of flex....learn from your mistake and life goes on....Don Z.
Don, thanks for the reply, and thanks for the pics trainnut.
So you dont think any kinks would form by soldering a new piece onto an already-laid curve, just so long as the joints have been trimmed evenly? (i'm assuming each end of the track needs the first 4-5 ties removed)
oh, and will regular wood glue work with cork to foam and track to cork?
sorry i ask so many questions; I'm allllmost done with my track plan, and I don't want to start laying any track before I'm completely sure of it even though I am sooo jonesing to start
There is no need to trim 5 or 6 ties from each end. I usually only trim 1 tie from each end of the flex track piece I'm working with. If the rail is soldered, it won't kink at the joiner. Take your time, work it gently and slowly and you'll have your rdius before you know it. Do yourself a favor and use Latex caulk to adhere the cork to your foam and your track to your cork. All it takes is a very small bead spread out with a putty knife. As you curve the track, slide the tip of your index finger along the top of the rail while looking away from the track. If there are flat spots in your curve, you should be able to feel them. I also get my head down onto the rail to sight the curve to ensure it is a nice constant curve.
Don Z wrote: Do yourself a favor and use Latex caulk to adhere the cork to your foam and your track to your cork. All it takes is a very small bead spread out with a putty knife. As you curve the track, slide the tip of your index finger along the top of the rail while looking away from the track. If there are flat spots in your curve, you should be able to feel them. Don Z.
Do yourself a favor and use Latex caulk to adhere the cork to your foam and your track to your cork. All it takes is a very small bead spread out with a putty knife. As you curve the track, slide the tip of your index finger along the top of the rail while looking away from the track. If there are flat spots in your curve, you should be able to feel them. Don Z.
I use adhesive caulk too. Sometimes it helps to nail or spike the end of a stubborn piece of flex track in place while the caulk sets -- I don't drive the nail or spike all the way in, I remove it. This is where the Ribbonrail gauges come in handy -- so the curve matches where two pieces of flex track meet. If the track seems to move after you remove the Ribbonrail gauge that is a good place to drive a nail or two while the caulk sets.
great, thanks again. lets say tho, that I lay a couple pieces of straight, and then begin to work on the section that starts the curve. Do you think it'd be better to solder the new piece tot he existing straight sections, or pre-curve the new section? I'm thinking that soldering first would be better, but im not sure.
then, after that, lets say that i don't have time to finish another piece. Should I trim the rails so that they're even? To me, this would seem to be the way to go, because then you can start the next piece as if you were starting from a straight-section anyway