DeadheadGreg wrote:Hey, I was just wondering what you all thought was the easiest way to mount knuckle couplers on older Atlas and Athearn engines. Is mounting a Kadee #5 with its own box the easiest, or would it be better to use McHenry/Bachmann EZmate self-centering knuckle couplers?
I can't speak to the McHenry, but you'll be disappointed with the EZmates. They can't handle a heavy or long train and twist at the shank which allows the couplers to slip apart.
To the original question, I say "yes" to mounting a #5 (or other metal couplers as in the 40 series) in the Kadee box. As stated abouve, get the #50 drill and 2-56 tap to screw mount the box to the coupler tongue.
And as I've said on numerous coupler threads, get the Kadee coupler height gauge and use it to check the coupler height and trip pin clearance and adjust as needed.
There's a Kadee coupler that works well with the Athearn BB's, maybe a No 27, but check their website for an application list. I think an offset knuckle was required to get the height to work out right on a GP38-2. Also, you need to insulate the coupler from the frame to avoid shorts if two engines are coupled nose to nose or tail to tail. I remember drilling and tapping a 2-56 hole in the frame and mounting the couplers with nylon screws.
Jim
Hi,
I've converted a number of older Athearn F, GP, and SD units (and a couple of Atlas units) to KD #5s - and all lasted for a long while (until I sold on Ebay and "upgraded").
I am not being critical, but I definitely prefer KDs over the alternatives. One thing you might want to consider is the new KD self centering "whisker" couplers. I believe the come in 3 lengths (medium is #5 equivalent) and they should be really easy to mount.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
To improve the look of all my Athearn BB. I body mounted the Kadees. This allows to fill in that huge slotted pilot, permanantly attach plows and other pilot details. The frame lugs are just cut off.
If you want to frame mount the Kadee box to the Athearn, you will find the coupler to be a bit low. You need to compensate for the box thickness by filing off frame material to raise the coupler height.
Older Atlas Rocco units have body mounted couplers. If you use the Kadee box the pilot hole just needs to be opened up for the box fit.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have convereted a lot of Athearn BB locomotives to KD #5. KD sells a kit with a drill bit and tap to convert to a 2-56 screw to hold the coupler. I would stick with KDs. I have tried the palstic couplers and had a lot of them fail and ended up replacing them with KDs.
For F units I constructed a plastic draw bar and connected them at the coupler pockets with a 2-56 screw. Many of the prototype units were coupled with drawbars.
JIM
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
The older Atlas GP's (Atlas/Roco) didn't have a separate coupler box, or any provision for one. The hole in the pilot was too small to fit any Kadee box, #5 or otherwise, without enlarging it quite a bit.
What someone came up with back then was to use a short-shank Kadee, no box or spring, and a small blob of silicone caulk. If you applied it right, the silicone would act as a spring since it held it's shape, yet was flexible. So the coupler could swing, and the silicone would force it back to center. But it was tough to get the silicone "just right".
Now I'd just use a short-shank whisker Kadee.
HTH,Steve
I like the Kadee the best.
They do stay coupled better. I have been trying some of the newer wisker spring types lately. They do "center" better.
But the bigger issue is that it depends on the exact Atlas or Athearn loco you are talking about. Some were designed to take a #5 but others were not. For example the front of an Athearn F takes a #5 like a charm, but they won't fit on the rear. There isn't enough room between the truck and the mounting hole. So one has to cut off the back of the coupler box blah de blah to make them fit and even then they look stupid because they stick out too far. So one needs to consider the Kadee #30 series that have the springs in the front so that the mounting point is near the rear of the entire coupler pocket. Get a short shank one and they will couple the locomotive much closer together too.
The old Atlas ROCO locmotives always have the coupler mount points too low for normal Kadee couplers. Once again look to the #30 series and get the underset shank. This raises the knuckle up to the right level without having to file away 1/8" of the pilot (which I have done on models back when I was young and stupid). There is also the #40 series that have underset shanks that will fit if one uses the center mounting hole and trims off the two outside mounting holes from the coupler box.
I can make a Kadee #5 coupler work just about anywhere, but with all the wonderful couplers Kadee makes why waste the time. Just buy a coupler that fits at the start, put it on and run the train instead of spending 10 hours on the work bench forcing a #5 to fit.
DeadheadGreg wrote:the engines are Athearn SD9 and GP9's, and the Atlas is the SD24. theres 2 SD9's i'm looking at, and one of them already has kadees mounted, but its missing one of the short handrails at the front of the engine
The SD's will have some pretty good pulling power, so I'd definately recommend the Kadee metal couplers in the Kadee coupler box. As stated above, use the Kadee coupler height gauge to check the coupler height and trip pin clearance and adjust as needed.
As for the missing handrail, Athearn usually makes the parts readily available, check to see if your local hobby shop can order it for you. The full handrail set for the SD9 is part number 38017 and lists for $6.75. Athearn has a full parts price list on their website:
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Parts/Default.aspx
For parts breakdowns of Athearn Locomotives:
http://www.hoseeker.net/athearnmicellaneous.html
great, thanks. What does BB mean? Bev-Bel? Anyway, I got one of the SD9's; it was the newer, better looking model that has all the handrails and has them painted in the right colors, it just didn't have kadees already mounted. I have a couple sets of #5's already mounted in their box; do you think I'll have to do any special fitting to get them in? I also have some of the better Bachmann EZmates that have a spring that have self-centering pins, but I think its better to put the metal Kadees on the engines and save those others for cars.
if i use the kadees, can I just use the screw thats already there to hold the horn-hook coupler in?
DeadheadGreg wrote: great, thanks. What does BB mean? Bev-Bel? Anyway, I got one of the SD9's; it was the newer, better looking model that has all the handrails and has them painted in the right colors, it just didn't have kadees already mounted. I have a couple sets of #5's already mounted in their box; do you think I'll have to do any special fitting to get them in? I also have some of the better Bachmann EZmates that have a spring that have self-centering pins, but I think its better to put the metal Kadees on the engines and save those others for cars. if i use the kadees, can I just use the screw thats already there to hold the horn-hook coupler in?
BB usually means "blue box," or the original Athearn. Until about 7 or 8 years ago, all Athearn locomotives and cars were kits or at least required you to install the couplers and handrails on the locomotive. These came in the blue box. Athearn's ready to run line uses a different color box.
Also using the words "better" and "Bachmann EZ Mates" in the sentence is just wrong. As far as saving them for anything, I think they'd be good for scenery along the right of way to show broken coupler knuckles. Kadee also has the one piece self centering couplers and they are much more durable than the Bachmann's. You'll save yourself money by just starting with Kadee's and not using the cheap couplers and have to go back and replace them with the Kadee's.
First off, find the Kadee coupler list. It recommends the best Kadee coupler for every piece of rolling stock manufactured since 1940. The list is published in the big Walther book, and on the Kadee web site. The recommended coupler will fit better with less filing and hacking. Worth the trip to the hobby shop to buy the right coupler.
Second, you want insulating or insulated couplers on locomotives. If a metal coupler makes electrical contact with the loco chassis you will have a short circuit when you double head steam or consist diesel units.
A lot of Athearns come with a snap on plastic coupler box. It's worth the effort to drill and tap the Athearn chassis to accept a 2-56 screw and use that to secure the Kadee supplied coupler box. Then you will never have the coupler pop off the locomotive and dive for the floor. The Kadee box also solves the coupler droop problem you get with the stock plastic Athearn box.
Kadee couplers are stronger, and more trouble free than the clones from McHenry & Bachmann. Last time I bought couplers, the clones cost as much as the real Kadee's, so why mess around with a not-so-good product that costs just as much as the real thing?
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
sorry to dig up an old thread, but I just had a couple more questions.
1) do i have to cut off the outer semi-circle sections of the kadee coupler box?
2) can I just super-glue the coupler box into the frame?
3) if I tap the body to accept a 2-56 screw, is there any chance that the plastic body will crack anywhere from the stress?
DeadheadGreg wrote: sorry to dig up an old thread, but I just had a couple more questions. 1) do i have to cut off the outer semi-circle sections of the kadee coupler box?2) can I just super-glue the coupler box into the frame?3) if I tap the body to accept a 2-56 screw, is there any chance that the plastic body will crack anywhere from the stress?
I usually cut those side mounts off. They were used as an alternate mounting.
I would tap and screw the box to the frame. A bit of Goo or CA may be used to help keep the box positioned. Don't glue until you are satisfied with the overall operation and adjustments for the coupler.
If you use the Kadee drill and tap set, you should never experience any problems with cracking the plastic. As long as at least 2-3 threads can grab you should be OK, http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page164.htm .
You should also check into Kadee box shims, red fiber washers (shimming bolsters/ trucks) and the 2/56 Delrin screws. I like the Delrin as it can be cut to any length very easily with a blade.
Cool, right on. What did you use to cut the sides off of the coupler mount box?
I'm thinking of making a trip up to the LHS today and pick up a bunch of #38 couplers, because thats what the Kadee website said to use with pretty much every Athearn engine. Or was it Atlas? Gahhhh i have to go back and check now
DeadheadGreg wrote: Cool, right on. What did you use to cut the sides off of the coupler mount box? I'm thinking of making a trip up to the LHS today and pick up a bunch of #38 couplers, because thats what the Kadee website said to use with pretty much every Athearn engine. Or was it Atlas? Gahhhh i have to go back and check now
A #11 Xacto with a little pressure, if you yant to get fancy, you can shave them so the box wouldn't show they ever existed.
KaDee has some "insulated" couplers that have a plastic shank and metal knuckles. These work ok for applications where a metal frame loco needs to be electrically isolated. They are more prone to breaking the shank than the all metal couplers. But I've had better luck with them than the all plastic KaDee "clones".
I don't remember the part number offhand. Might be 37 or 38?
Rotor
Jake: How often does the train go by? Elwood: So often you won't even notice ...
Rotorranch wrote: KaDee has some "insulated" couplers that have a plastic shank and metal knuckles. These work ok for applications where a metal frame loco needs to be electrically isolated. They are more prone to breaking the shank than the all metal couplers. But I've had better luck with them than the all plastic KaDee "clones". I don't remember the part number offhand. Might be 37 or 38?Rotor
All Kadee 20 and 30 series couplers are plastic insulating type. The different numbers within the series are the long, medium, and short shank, plus offset or centered head couplers. The last digit within the series will be the same offset or shank length (ie. the 27, 37, and 47 couplers are all the same profile--medium length shank, underset head). 27 and 37 are the plastic ones, 47 is the metal one.
PS: the #38 is the same profile (in plastic) as the #5, centered head, medium length shank.
Tom...you are correct. I was going from memory without checking the KaDee chart found here: http://kadee.com/conv/convpl.htm
Thanks for posting the part numbers.
I went out and got a pair of the whisker couplers, and I like those a lot. I hate how on some Athearns, you see the bronze centering springs if you don't mount a whole coupler box.
I also realize that Athearn has 2 kinds of engines, those with the coupler lid that mounts on top of the coupler, and those that mount underneith the coupler. I forget which is which, but one of them is easiest to mount a regular, assembled #5 that is at the correct height.