Hi all,I've decided to try to build my first real layout (N scale) and have been playing with ideas for doing this practically within my available space. Thanks to another thread I think the garage is out - at least until I can reasonably build a climate-controlled room out there (and I want to think about a more ambitious layout if I'm going to make that investment).
So it will live in my office, which is mostly filled with bookshelves and a desk at this point. The room is roughly 12'x12' with an entry/'atrium' sort of extension 2'x3' or so. Two large windows are on one end and a closet on the other. The furniture arrangement is flexible.
I was initially considering a high shelf on one of the uninterrupted walls - potentially breaking into the closet for staging if I put it on the north wall. I'm a novice, though, so the idea of fastening things to my walls or cutting holes for tunnels through drywall is still a bit daunting to me. If I garfed up our lovely woodwork my wife would kill me.
So, the point, is that I have this piece of 'inherited' office furniture from a friend that remodeled his home office. It's a black ?melamine? covered shelf system with two units covered by a moveable top piece. The unit measures 72"x18.5" by 30.5" high. By trading out some existing low bookcases with this piece I could gain a fairly nice (very solid) base for my layout along a wall with about 8'-9' of space (leaving room for decent side access).
I can secure the top to the base shelves so that it doesn't slide around and then put *something* on top on which to build my layout. Question is: what form should that take? The whole thing is kind of low so I think I'd want benchwork that brings it up at least a few inches. Seems silly to use girders because I already have a pretty good support (unless I go a lot beyond 72") although that would get me some height I guess. I don't really want to throw the beginner N scale standard hollow core door on top either.
One of the biggest problems I'm envisioning is the difficulty of working with wiring and other under-layout items. Even if the layout surface is elevated above the level of the shelf it's going to be too tight to do much of anything in there. I've been sketching some ideas, one of which involves having it really high off of the shelf and with some under-layout staging, since I won't really be able to reach the back of the thing without going over the top of it.
Well, now I seem to have meandered my thinking into a corner on this one. :)
Anyone used this sort of scheme for supporting a layout before? Is there some hidden problem I'm not thinking of other than access to the underside? Is under-layout staging possible in such a small space (call it 7'x2.5' with overhang)? Is it silly to try to have a loop for continuous running (I know it's not realistic but sometimes you just want to turn it on and let it run)?
Heh. Thanks for bearing with my n00bishness. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.M
I doesn't seem to be the ideal layout, but I guess it would be okay for switching. It's a little low, even sitting. I'm doing a layout in exactly twice that space in HO so it can be done. That layout will move into my office when my kid vacates it.
What I would do, all things being equal is build, the layout into a high custom book case like you see in lawyer's offices or dens. Then put the layout about chest high and run the length of the wall or bookcase (in case you have more than one wall in book cases). Your wife will like the finished look and the books--her freinds will see the books as well as the trains and not think you're a total idiot.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
I agree with Chip that 30" (the usual height of a kitchen table) is rather low for a railroad, even one to be operated from a seated position. My lowest visible track is 42" off the floor, which is chin level when I'm sitting in an ordinary chair and just above belt buckle level when standing. Anything lower is rather like the view from the Goodyear blimp.
You might consider building a thick superstructure frame, though not necessarily a full foot from the top of your base cabinets to the railheads. The advantages:
One trick which makes life simpler is to bring all your electrical wiring to the front edge, accessible through removable panels in the fascia. That way all you have to do is fish the drops forward (I use an untwisted, straightened wire clothes hanger.)
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on steel stud benchwork)
Though far from ideal, we take what we can get as far as space is concerned. To address your wiring question, I too dispise the under the benchwork monster, to that end i'm doing my wire runs on the front fascia, exposed for all to see and comment on!!! Some day in the future I intend to make a cover that can be easily removed for access. Custom bookcases are too rich for me, I got mine from Ikea, the only wood in my benchwork, finished/painted they do good job for a reasonable cost, true I did have to "build them up" vertically to my chosen height.
What is so wrong with a switching layout? Why this obsession to cram as much as possible for a given space? A shelf layout is the true defination of linear design and is very well suited to a shelf design, the narrow cross section permits a high level of detail and easy access for maintaince. One of the most respected layouts this hobby has ever seen employed low benchwork to fool the viewer and convey distance. Lighting is a breeze as well, heck cut apart those old calenders for the backdrop, have at it and enjoy!!!!!
Ditch the all too common space/money visible yard and subsutitue stagging in its place, trust me you won't miss it, matter of fact I converted a 4 track finished yard into a 12 foot citrus packing house ...Two spurs remain for sorting and storage should I desire that option.
Dave
M, This is pretty much what I'm doing today. I have a 36" x 80" hollow core door sitting on sawhorses that are about 30" high. It could have just as well been bookcases but I didn't have any then. I plan to raise the layout later to about 48" or so later, but 30" is a great height during the construction phase. I think the final configuration will have the layout sitting on bookcases or shelves with something removable elevating it to the desired height.
Early wiring was very easy as I rotated the door 90-degrees and rested the top edge against the wall to complete the block and turnout wiring which I could do standing up. There are some pictures on my web site if you are interested. Jim
Thanks for the comments and suggestions all. I'm far from decided what to do...just exploring ideas at the moment. I agree the thing's too low as is. I'd prefer chest to eye height and not very deep for ease of access.
Nothing wrong with switching. The layouts I've enjoyed looking at most in MR and elsewhere have no capability for continuous running. I totally agree about not needing a full yard 'on set' and I'd like to have one or even two staging areas. Still, I would just like to 'turn on the trains' once in a while. As I play with track plans though I'm realizing how much a loop kills my available space on such a small layout.
I'm going to keep looking for potential solutions and haven't ruled out a pure shelf leading to staging in my closet. I've seen one short line concept (from Rice) that might work well with that setup. At this point I don't know nuthin' about nuthin' so I'm trying to read all that I can and look at as many options as I can to figure out what I want to do. I am rereading the Armstrong book on planning for realistic operation right now. Maybe I'll learn something. :)
M
Edit: BTW, Jim, I checked out your site and your layout's looking pretty cool. I saw that technique in a book I bought a while back. That foam's great isn't it? I've used it for some pretty realistic wargame terrain over the years. How big was your old layout? It seems like it might have been a bit bigger than a hollow-core door. The scenery on that is quite sharp.
mearrin69 wrote: Thanks for the comments and suggestions all. I'm far from decided what to do...just exploring ideas at the moment. I agree the thing's too low as is. I'd prefer chest to eye height and not very deep for ease of access.Nothing wrong with switching. The layouts I've enjoyed looking at most in MR and elsewhere have no capability for continuous running. I totally agree about not needing a full yard 'on set' and I'd like to have one or even two staging areas. Still, I would just like to 'turn on the trains' once in a while. As I play with track plans though I'm realizing how much a loop kills my available space on such a small layout.I'm going to keep looking for potential solutions and haven't ruled out a pure shelf leading to staging in my closet. I've seen one short line concept (from Rice) that might work well with that setup. At this point I don't know nuthin' about nuthin' so I'm trying to read all that I can and look at as many options as I can to figure out what I want to do. I am rereading the Armstrong book on planning for realistic operation right now. Maybe I'll learn something. :)MEdit: BTW, Jim, I checked out your site and your layout's looking pretty cool. I saw that technique in a book I bought a while back. That foam's great isn't it? I've used it for some pretty realistic wargame terrain over the years. How big was your old layout? It seems like it might have been a bit bigger than a hollow-core door. The scenery on that is quite sharp.
I too, soon realized that the ability turn entire consists was vital, I was able to squeeze a two track reverse loop at the expense of a lot of potential scenery, a divider hides it from prowling eyes, yet it can be reached via a duckunder for complete access. Stagging to a closet is a clever technique. Someday,i'll have to relate the story of a previous layout of mine that had stagging in a kitchen cabinet, reached via a tunnel in the dinning room wall!!!! Hey, it was functional until I got married!!!!
mearrin69 wrote: : BTW, Jim, ...How big was your old layout?...
: BTW, Jim, ...How big was your old layout?...
The old layout in the garage was "L" shaped about 8 by 15 feet, built in 4 sections. The biggest mistake I made when building it was not thinking about the possibility of ever moving it. Jim