After several hot, sweaty nights in the layout room this summer, I decided to try out daylight CFLs (compact fluorescent lamps). I previously used Philips Natural Light (daylight)incandescents. The CFLs are good deal "whiter" then the incandescents. The colors render more toward the blue end of the spectrum, but the variations seem to stand out more.
Huntington Ridge with incandescent:
Huntington Ridge with CFLs:
I think the CFLs look much better, but it didn't come cheap. For the cost of each CFL, I could have replaced all the Phillips bulbs in the layout room twice.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
I don't know how many bulbs your using, but replacing at least some of them with warm tone or red CFL's ( or useing some red gels ) will help counter some of the 'blue' look.
Examples:
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/B000GBD8CA/102-1234346-8674515?SubscriptionId=1VSKFQ1XD6PZCE1ET682%26tag%3Dearth-searchresults-20
http://www.greenshorticulture.co.uk/details.asp?productid=873&subcat=125&cat=95
I use the warm CFL's and found the natural light ones not giving good color as shown in your second picture. The warm CFL's look more like natural light than the natural light ones on the layout.
Rocks as west coast and warm CFL's
The same rocks as east coast with warm CFLs
I put the CFL's in reflectors to give some directionality.
Visit:
http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/4x8/lighting/
Thank you if you visit
Harold
I kind of think the first pic looks better too. The second looks like you used some kind of blue filter on the lens.
I can't stand the pink and blue hues that some of the fluorescents give off.
I agree with the other posters. Warm white will help the color balance problem. Packs of four "soft white" 40w equivalents are $8.00 at HD. I've paid $5.00 each for incandescent spots. Here is a photo of my layout lit with warm CPFLs. It looks blue because of the backdrops, but check the colors on the cars and the buildiings.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Nick, I would replace at least one of the older bulbs and see what effect that has. I find the last image too blue or grey. I like the tones better in the first, but agree that they are not right. Otherwise, if you have Microsoft Picture Manager, or whatever its name is, or something like it, you can alter the look to suit your tastes.
I am curious as to why you feel the second image is so much better than the first.
-Crandell
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
The lighting is much more pleasing in person.
Again the incandesecent:
Here's the CFLs with a custom white balance setting. This is closer to what it look like in person. Still a tad blue, but the greens pop much better:
Yes, keep in mind that if you change the type of lights you will need to change the white balance and/or filter in the camera to get accurate photos.
I don't think I have any pictures but as an experiment I tried swapping tubes in my 2-tube fixtures so one was a warm white and one was a cool white. Looking at the light itself i looked wierd, one bluish and one pinkish, but the light on the layout looked pretty decent. I've since given up the whole thing and think for the next layout I will get cheap porcelain fixtures and use CFLs - I purposely did not buy the cheapest T32 fixtures they had, the ones I got were mid level and had electronic ballasts, yet of 4 fixtures purchased, all but 1 have had failures. For the cost of one of those, less bulbs, I could have gotten 4-5 porcelain lamp sockets and had just as much if not more light in the space.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
One interesting thing I've found, is the higher wattage CFLs need some time to warm up. When first turned on they are very blue. After several minutes, however, the lamps broadcast a wider spectrum and provide a more pleasing light.
mikesmowers wrote: I have tried using the CFL's and I did like the new look of the layout although they were a little to blue. I went back to the regular daylight bulbs because I like to dim the lights a little to run night time, With the CFL bulbs you cannot use a dimmer and they were just to bright. Mike
There are dimmable CFLs available.
http://e3living.com/catalog/45/energy_saving_lighting
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Nick, I notice in your incandesant photo that there is a good bit of red. You can most readily see it in the white door frame behind the layout. The second photo is a bit on the blue side. It's hard to get that happy medium isn't it. I think the best way to judge it is to be there looking at it in person, like you do. Posted photos on this forum and anywhere else on the internet is a guessing game at best. I've been in digital photography for about 7 years now and one of the first things I learned is that everybodys computer monitor isn't calibrated to reproduce accurate color. A picture you post may look to blue to some, just right to others and too red to still others. I use a Gretag Macbeth calibrator http://usa.gretagmacbethstore.com/index.cfm/act/Catalog.cfm/catalogid/1861/Subcategory/Eye-One%20Solutions/category/Eye-One/browse/null/MenuGroup/__Menu%20USA%20New/desc/Eye-One%20Display%202.htm ($250) to get my monitor as close as I can to accurate and it's still a hair off. Even then I bring the photos into Photoshop and jump through hoops correcting for color even more. In the end the photos I post are very accurate as far as color goes. disclaimer: unless I intentionally throw color to the wind i.e. night shots of the layout.
In the end we can get a pretty good idea of the colors we see in each other's photos, but digital photography, from the camera's color space used to shoot the photo, through the proceessing of the picture, to the monitors we use to finally view the picture, all introduce a lot of variables, some great some small.
As for me, I have regular old flourescent tubes in my train room, flat light... ugly.. so I like to see guys like you trying new stuff to make it better.
Thanks for posting your results.
Jarrell
nbrodar wrote:One interesting thing I've found, is the higher wattage CFLs need some time to warm up. When first turned on they are very blue. After several minutes, however, the lamps broadcast a wider spectrum and provide a more pleasing light.Nick
The 150 watt equivalents I used to replace a pair of regualr 100 watt bulbs in the other part of my basement are liek that, especially int he winter whent he basement is cooler. When first turned on,t here's much LESS light thent he 100 watters they repalced. After they warm up - much MORE light.
rrinker wrote: nbrodar wrote:One interesting thing I've found, is the higher wattage CFLs need some time to warm up. When first turned on they are very blue. After several minutes, however, the lamps broadcast a wider spectrum and provide a more pleasing light.Nick The 150 watt equivalents I used to replace a pair of regualr 100 watt bulbs in the other part of my basement are liek that, especially int he winter whent he basement is cooler. When first turned on,t here's much LESS light thent he 100 watters they repalced. After they warm up - much MORE light.
I have about 60 CFLs in my home, 13, 23 and 43 watts. The 13 and 43 sized take 20-40 seconds to become full on. The 23's are pretty much instant ons. I use the 23's in places where instant on is required and the others in locations like the train room and the garage.
Just my 2 cents an my experiences.
Joe
This is all very interesting stuff!
I've been replacing my house lights with CFLs gradually over the past 2 years and even in that short time, the variety and colors of CFL bulbs is growing rapidly. I think the energy saved (green in both an environmental and money sense) and the reduced heating make them an attractive option.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Early on with CFLs I could not help but notice the failure rate was unacceptable. To me the benefit outweights the issues and here is what I am doing about it.
I always buy my CFLs from one source, HD where they have been superior at replacing, no questions asked when I returned a bad one. I buy them in 2 & 4 packs and write the purchase month and year on the package and keep the package. I also write that same date using a sharpie on the base of the bulb. And I return them 2 or 4 at a time in the original packaging. I have a plastic box in the utility room with the packaging, old and new bulbs.
Oh, the reliability does seem to be improving this past year, I don't replace them nearly as often as I did the first year.
Another 2 cents!
CFLs. Yuckies! I've kept them out of my house but they are in my garage. If the garage light switch is accedentally left on, we can't tell inside the house and they are way up out of the way.
The risks of bad things happening with two active healthy boys in the house is too great. CFLs light is actually more green than blue or red. Incandescants are more yellow and red than blue. By tinting the glass blue, they cut some of the other colors down to balance the light by subtraction. Daylight incandescents are more color correctibale as they are broader spectrum lights to begin with.
Robert Kennedy Jr can stick his CFLs in his own kids bedrooms and when they get mercury poisining, he had better not blame me. I told him it's a bad idea!
joe-daddy wrote: Early on with CFLs I could not help but notice the failure rate was unacceptable. To me the benefit outweights the issues and here is what I am doing about it.I always buy my CFLs from one source, HD where they have been superior at replacing, no questions asked when I returned a bad one. I buy them in 2 & 4 packs and write the purchase month and year on the package and keep the package. I also write that same date using a sharpie on the base of the bulb. And I return them 2 or 4 at a time in the original packaging. I have a plastic box in the utility room with the packaging, old and new bulbs. Oh, the reliability does seem to be improving this past year, I don't replace them nearly as often as I did the first year. Another 2 cents!Joe
This is something that I have discussed with folks on a energy list.
The cause is multiple reasions.
1) Most CFL's are made in china - this isn't nessasarly a bad thing ( not great either ), but some of the manufactures were making them with transformers that were to small / under rated to save money.
This causes them to heat up more than they should ( in a few cases it has even started fires ) - but it also lower the bulb life. Now if they are in places where they can't cool off reasionably well, this lowers life as well.
2) Many brands CFL's don't do well with humidity, as it causes corrosion issues and it also keeps it from cooling as well as it should. When combined with problem #1, it can make for a very short bulb life.
3) Short on and off cycles also shorten bulb life. When this is combined with problems #1 and #2, it can mean a bulb life that is only a few months long.
I have CFL's in almost all fixtures in the house with a few exceptions.
Garage door opener.
Bathrooms.
Dining room light fixture.
The garage door opener has alot of on/off cycles and is enclosed - CFL's will last perhaps 6 months.
The bathrooms see alot of on/off cycles, is subject to high humidity, and is somewhat enclosed - a CFL may last from 3-6 months.
The dining room light fixture uses only the small 'flame' bulbs and is on a dimmer - I don't even try to use CFL's there.
In contrast the CFL's in the outdoor fixtures have lasted from 3-5 yrs.
HEdward wrote: CFLs. Yuckies! I've kept them out of my house but they are in my garage. If the garage light switch is accedentally left on, we can't tell inside the house and they are way up out of the way.
Just add a simple LED, that comes on in the house when they are on.
HEdward wrote:CFLs. Yuckies! I've kept them out of my house but they are in my garage. If the garage light switch is accedentally left on, we can't tell inside the house and they are way up out of the way. The risks of bad things happening with two active healthy boys in the house is too great. CFLs light is actually more green than blue or red. Incandescants are more yellow and red than blue. By tinting the glass blue, they cut some of the other colors down to balance the light by subtraction. Daylight incandescents are more color correctibale as they are broader spectrum lights to begin with. Robert Kennedy Jr can stick his CFLs in his own kids bedrooms and when they get mercury poisining, he had better not blame me. I told him it's a bad idea!
Is your issue with the mercury used in the CFL?
As a kid growing up in the 50's we played with mercury, whenever and however we could get it. It was fun to see it puddle in your hand and the way it screwed up a dime was a kick in the butt!. It would look new for about a day, then haze the dime.
My dad did automotive work, especially brake jobs and he ground off brake shoes for a living. Seems that the brake shoes were made of asbestos. He'd come home at night covered with that dust, in his shirt, pants, you know, coated. We didn't care, we still sat in his lap.
Somewhere along the line, mercury became lethal and asbestos became toxic.
Dad died at 74, from too many Marlboros and too many hambergers withhout enough exercise, if he would have lived right, I'm sure he would have made it to 78.
I remember cutting myself on countless broken electric light bulbs, and us playing with old floresent light tubes, they were great swords. Ididn't like the smoke that came out of them when we broke them though, it looked strange.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that someone has died from mercury, and asbestos must be dangerous too. I've been spared from actually knowing anyone first person that has suffered from this.
And we all know that lead paint was everywhere when we grew up. We didn't know it was lead, we just knew it was paint and we liked it. We liked to play with lead too, we melted it and made sinkers out of it. It looked alot like mercury when we heated it up.
Somehow, there has to be a reasonable perspective to all this. I'm going to keep my CFLs until something better comes along.
Just my 2 cents
Joe Daddy
I've always said, different bulbs do have their place. I don't like the light they give in general. Unlike a previous poster, my garage automated light with the door opener is incndescant and even tho it is more than ten years old, the opener says on it, "Use 40-60 watt incandescant buld only!" Were they clairvoiant?
The major lighting in my basement is flourescent at this time. Regular tubes behind difussers. I'm not a fan of HG and other heavy metals when vaporised. I prefer to get my mercury the old fashioned way, SEAFOOD!
My main point in this thread was, the way they produce light is a chemical conversion of UV into visible light. Much like LEDs, this produces only a limited spectrum. Edison bulbs glow across a wide band heavy on the yellow to infra red. Blue tint in the bulb's glass lessens the non-blue colors, balancing the light better. Unfortunatly yes, they burn hot, use more power, etc. They also can be dimmed, used with ALL electronic timers and come on to full brightness in a fraction of a second.
Lastly, CFLs, regular Fls as well, bleed the UV through as well. While the UV level isn't like what causes sunburn, it still, over time, can bleach the color out of many dyes. That beautifull green mountianside can become grey in a mere thousand hours.
From now on, I'm lighting my layout with candles and converting my locos to mainspring and key winding. No 'lectricity use for me at all! Baby Bobby can keep calling me a traitor, I won't feel bad.
HEdward wrote:Snip Unlike a previous poster, my garage automated light with the door opener is incndescant and even tho it is more than ten years old, the opener says on it, "Use 40-60 watt incandescant buld only!" Were they clairvoiant? Snip
Snip
Unlike a previous poster, my garage automated light with the door opener is incndescant and even tho it is more than ten years old, the opener says on it, "Use 40-60 watt incandescant buld only!" Were they clairvoiant?
Garage door openers are typically extremely high vibration locations requiring heavy duty shock resistant light bulbs. I think they were referred to as High Service or somthing like that.
Similar to the kind I used in my auto drop light where they also put plastic coating on the light bulb so that dripping radiator water would not blow out the bulb.
joe-daddy wrote: HEdward wrote: Snip Unlike a previous poster, my garage automated light with the door opener is incndescant and even tho it is more than ten years old, the opener says on it, "Use 40-60 watt incandescant buld only!" Were they clairvoiant? SnipGarage door openers are typically extremely high vibration locations requiring heavy duty shock resistant light bulbs. I think they were referred to as High Service or somthing like that.Similar to the kind I used in my auto drop light where they also put plastic coating on the light bulb so that dripping radiator water would not blow out the bulb.
HEdward wrote: Snip Unlike a previous poster, my garage automated light with the door opener is incndescant and even tho it is more than ten years old, the opener says on it, "Use 40-60 watt incandescant buld only!" Were they clairvoiant? Snip
I've got one of those "drop lights" as well. I'm thinking that when I'm putting it away from now on, either the bulb comes out and put in a drawer nice and safe, or an old pillow gets wrapped around it. Haven't had a bulb last more than a few uses, ever.
Speaking of bulbs, I've got to remember to change the one in our oven. Can't see if the bun in the oven is ready without some light!(ok, that might hint that my wife is but she isn't, I just liked the image)
Good Morning,
This subject has a lot of arms and legs, doesn't it?
My trainroom was originally a large 11x15 bedroom with one of the usual two bulb fixtures in the middle of the ceiling. When prepping it for a trainroom, I put two more of those fixtures in place, each equaldistant from the center to the far wall. It turned out that 60w bulbs (6x60=360) was too much light and heat, with heat being a big factor here just a bit north of Houston. So, I substituted 40w bulbs and all seemed ok for a number of years.
About two months ago I substituted cfls after reading about them in a consumer magazine. May I share three things I learned from that article with you (both of which were alluded to earlier)? First, there are some poorly made cfls on the market. Buy a name brand and you are most assured of getting what you paid for. Second, all cfls take time to brighten up, some approaching 45 seconds. Third, these things make regular light bulbs seem indestructable.
The new look took a bit getting used to, but I like it now. The photos I have taken with a regular 35mm come out pretty good, the heat is minimal, and the wattage use is minimal too.
I'm not saying everyone should switch or the above will work for you, but I am saying that so far it works for me.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
dante wrote:They are called "Rough Service." And I hope you don't wrap pillows around hot light bulbs immediately after you turn them off!
Ok, I can be silly, and I know that I'm one of the least experienced at many aspects of the hobby, but your hope is fullfilled. I am proud to say that I have not caused a fire by accident since 1958. I want to change the fixtures in my entire basement save the laundry room. Over the layout, with the low ceiling, recessed lighting. Ove the pool table, there's still an ugly workshop fixture. Totally uncool. Then theres the game area. A proper fixture hanging over the poker/chess etc table would do wonders to make this look like a planned and not just thrown together space.