I've had the hardest time getting a 'mist' of matte medium/water out of my spray bottles. I'm beginning to think my mix is a little too much, i.e. 50/50, and it clogs up the spray tip very fast. What do you use, glue or matte medium and what ratio have you found works best. What I'm trying to do, for the most part, is get a nice misting spray to hold down my dirt/ WS foam etc. The dirt isn't that much of a problem because I'm using ground goop and it has glue in it so when I sprinkle on dirt of various colors it pretty much is stuck. It's the other 'ground cover' such as fine and coarse foam I'm trying to bond that giving the problems.
JaRRell
I've been using 40% glue. 50% water and 10% alcohol. If this still clogs I add a little more water. What kind of sprayer are you using? I found pump hairspray bottles work good. I also bought some eyeglass cleaner that had a very fine mist sprayer. I've found the top pump type sprayers work better than the trigger ones. They all blow the ground foam around if you hold it too close. I use one of those ink jet refill bottles with the needle on it for most of my gluing. Takes longer but you get better control.
Jarrell,
For ballasting track, I use a 3:1 ratio or Elmers glue and rubbing (Isopropyl) alcohol and it looks the ballast down very well. Course, I use an eye dropper to apply it. I don't know. The alcohol may actually keep the glue from clogging the spray nozzle. You might also try swirling the mixture so that the glue doesn't have a chance to separate.
Tom
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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Maybe I oughta add a little alcohol, I don't see what it could hurt. I've experimented with every kinda bottle I come across. They all seem to put out a fine mist of straight water, but not a mix of glue and water.
Jarrell
loathar wrote: I've been using 40% glue. 50% water and 10% alcohol. If this still clogs I add a little more water. What kind of sprayer are you using? I found pump hairspray bottles work good. I also bought some eyeglass cleaner that had a very fine mist sprayer. I've found the top pump type sprayers work better than the trigger ones. They all blow the ground foam around if you hold it too close. I use one of those ink jet refill bottles with the needle on it for most of my gluing. Takes longer but you get better control.
Thanks Tom, I'll keep experimenting. I may not ever get it any better than it is now, but I'll try.
tstage wrote: Jarrell,For ballasting track, I use a 3:1 ratio or Elmers glue and rubbing (Isopropyl) alcohol and it looks the ballast down very well. Course, I use an eye dropper to apply it. I don't know. The alcohol may actually keep the glue from clogging the spray nozzle. You might also try swirling the mixture so that the glue doesn't have a chance to separate.Tom
Don't spray the glue mixture: do you want it all over your track, structures, and whatever else is nearby? Fill your sprayer with tap water, then add a few drops of liquid dish detergent. When your ground cover, ballast or whatever else you're trying to fasten in place is arranged the way you want it, very lightly mist the area with the "wet" water. I generally start by aiming the spray upwards, letting it fall onto the scenic material. After it has become dampened, you can spray it more directly without fear of blowing it all over the place. When you think that everything is wet enough, spray some more: if you've got ballast 1/2" deep beside the track, you need to wet it right down to the bottom. Otherwise, the glue mixture will only penetrate as far as the "wet" water, forming a crust on the surface, without actually bonding the ballast to the layout. Don't be timid! When everything is thoroughly wetted, apply the glue mixture. I use white glue, mixed about 50/50 with tap water. Buy the glue in a gallon jug, as it's much cheaper, and use hot tap water to get it to mix more readily. I mix mine in a fairly large plastic bottle: about a quart or a bit bigger, the pour it into an applicator bottle as needed. My applicator is a plastic bottle that holds about 4 or 5 ounces and will apply the glue mixture by-the-drop when inverted, and faster if lightly squeezed. You'll see how far one drop will spread when it hits the pre-wetted scenic material, but don't skimp here either. You need to apply enough glue mixture to penetrate right down to the scenery base. Don't worry if it pools or puddles, as it will dry flat. Where it collects in low spots, I usually sprinkle on some more ground foam, then give it a few shots with some more "wet" water. In the view below, the ground cover, rock fill, cinders, and ballast was all applied at the same time, and is more than 1/2" deep in some places. I placed newspapers on the floor beneath the layout to catch any run-off of glue.
Same in this picture: the glue puddled in the field in the left foreground, so I dumped some ground foam onto it, and wetted it a bit so that it would soak up the excess glue. This area will eventually became an orchard.
If the area that you're trying to scenic is too steeply sloped to allow the ground cover to stay in place when it's first applied, "paint" the area with full-strength white glue first, then sprinkle on the foam (I use a paper cup, as it gives good control over how much foam you drop and control over where you drop it). Don't try to re-arrange it too much, though, or you'll just make a mess. When everything is in place, spray the area with the "wet" water (to help the foam absorb the glue that's already there) then add dilute white glue as you would anywhere else.
It's important to remember not to touch anything while the glue is still wet, and to remember that it may take up to several days for everything to dry.
Wayne
I do spray it, but only over substantial areas of poured ground foam. Even then, I will place painter's tape over tracks, paper towel up against structures, and I'll still spray if I am in a hurry. For ballast, though, it has to be dribbled on.
My formula, so far easily sprayed with the $1.95 plastic triggered spray bottles you can buy at nurseries or hardware stores that have garden supplies, is one part glue, four to five parts water (so you know I just eyeball it), and a couple of drops of dish detergent. My spray settles and soaks into drying or dried goop and into ground foam just like I have always wanted it to...fast and thoroughly.
When I finish a session, I screw the nozzle in tight to cap the orifice behind it to keep if from drying, and I wipe the outer orifice on the twist nozzle. Next session, sometimes weeks later, I simply back off the tightened nozzle, shake the container well, and begin to pump the trigger to get the action working until it begins to spray. Once or twice I have soaked the nozzle parts, including the tube, in hot soapy water. Ten minutes later, I am back in business.
I use acrylic craft paint, around half and half water and pigment, applied with a brush.
I go over an area about three to four inches square, for coverage, then hit the area again just to make sure it's all nice and wet. The cans of material are already open and ready, and I'm careful not to sprinkle right up to the edge of the paint. That way the next section doesn't have a wet brush smearing around in the ground material.
I let it dry a full day, then hit the whole area with the dustbuster, after making sure it's clean inside so I can reuse what it sucks up. Sometimes I have to go back and touch up, but usually not.
Nice thing about paint, it allows you infinite control over the apearance of the bare areas, and unless you're talking about a lawn or manicured golf course, natural scrub always has some bare areas.
I don't like spraying glue either. I use 50/50 glue/water mix, with some alcohol added, and screw top mustard bottle.
Nick
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Since so many of you seem to be spraying the glue, it makes me wonder if this has anything to do with the problems that many people seem to have with keeping their track clean. After applying scenery, using the methods outlined above, my rail becomes discoloured (almost a brass colour), although the trains still run on it. I clean the railheads for appearance sake, and after this is done, I don't have to clean them again - ever.
Those spray bottles are hit or miss. I've tried about 10 before I found one that worked well. I clean and guard it with my life now. Try some hair spray bottles from the dollar store. They're made to spray sticky stuff in a fine mist.
PS-I tried that $6 one from Woodland Scenics. It worked for about 5 minutes.
selector wrote:My formula, so far easily sprayed with the $1.95 plastic triggered spray bottles you can buy at nurseries or hardware stores that have garden supplies, is one part glue, four to five parts water (so you know I just eyeball it), and a couple of drops of dish detergent. My spray settles and soaks into drying or dried goop and into ground foam just like I have always wanted it to...fast and thoroughly.When I finish a session, I screw the nozzle in tight to cap the orifice behind it to keep if from drying, and I wipe the outer orifice on the twist nozzle. Next session, sometimes weeks later, I simply back off the tightened nozzle, shake the container well, and begin to pump the trigger to get the action working until it begins to spray. Once or twice I have soaked the nozzle parts, including the tube, in hot soapy water. Ten minutes later, I am back in business.
Mostly 1:4 ratio and alcohol instead of detergent. Works just fine, although I do occasionally have to clean the nozzle. This happens more often when the bottle is getting empty and I forgot to shake it before spraying.
Don't forget to let new bottles of mixed medium stand for a day in a glass jar and then decant into the sprayer. Some brands contain white powder and you don't want to be spraying that on the scenery.
Good luck,
Karl
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Doc, one of my lessons learned was to avoid spraying the rails and ballast because railtop wiping has to be done immediately or the glue will leave a tough residue. If you miss a section through inattention, your workload triples as fast as the glue dries. Hence, the painter's tape, applied in a couple of seconds, and removed even faster. However, I can't find a faster method than spraying to cover lots of...um...ground in a hurry.
Since we are on the general subject, to readers everywhere, if you are using ground goop as your scenery, think about applying your ground foam(s) and then spraying them with glue very soon after applying the layer of goop. The reason is that the goop will be strongly hydroscopic, wanting to absorb any water you offer it. This means that glue applied to already dried and set goop will need to come in much larger quantities to have the gluing effect to the ground foam. The goop just soaks it all up until you have applied enough that it will stay on the surface...what a waste! So, as you can see, when the goop is setting and thoroughly wet is the time to apply at least the initial layer of foam(s) and glue it/them in place.