The difficulty of making a final decision

[NevinW]

I have made my move to Reno and we have set up our house and theoretically it is time to build a model railroad. I have built many model railroads in the past but this one I am having trouble with. I can't make up my mind about a number of decisions. Part of the problem is that I really enjoy historical modelings- modeling a specific railroad at a specific place and time- easy when it was the B&O, not so easy when it comes to the Nevada railroads. I really like what Jack Burgess has done with his Yosemite Valley RR. I would like to do something similar with a Nevada railroad. Here are the hangups:

First: Spare bedroom vs. garage. The bedroom is upstairs and must share space with a treadmill and bowflex that pretty much limit it to two 11' walls. It is air conditioned and carpeted. The garage is much bigger and I have about 40 feet of wall I could attach a shelf railroad. However it must share space with two cars and is not air conditioned. Reno is hot in the summer and cold in the winter. There is dust and sand.

Second: HO vs HOn3 vs On30 vs On3. I currently have considerable HO equipment, unfortunately it is for the B&O and WM so it isn't too useful if I am going to model a Nevada mining railroad. I have some HOn3 SPNG cars that I built in the 1980's, but small HOn3 engines like SP 4-6-0s and 2-6-0s are not that easy to get to run well and hard to fit DCC and sound into. On the other hand I have enough room that an HOn3 SP or C&C or even E&P could be done and follow prototype track designs fairly easily. Bachmann has made On30 and I have even bought an On30 Climax and Shay during a time of weakness. I could model a freelanced Nevada narrow gauge mining road version of DVRR. The problem is that none of the equipment really follows a Nevada railroad prototype so it would be necessarily freelanced to a large degree. My 50 year old eyes are not what they used to be so larger may be better.

Thirdly: Virginia & Truckee RR vs. Tonopah & Goldfield RR vs Tonopah & Tidewater RR. If I choose HO then I want to decide between these railroads. Bachmann's 4-6-0 is a deadringer for a number of these engines. The V&T is the most popular and I am 30 miles from Virginia City. There are at least 4 published V&T trackplans and every inch of it is well documented. The problem is around here it is like modeling the RGS. How many model versions of Ophir are there? It would be fun to model something that hasn't been modeled before. The T&G and T&T would be great except that I have not come up with a suitable trackplan that mimics the prototype close enough. Part of the problem is the use of wyes that are great space eaters on model railroads. There is also a paucity of material on these roads. Try finding a track plan for the Beatty yards for example or the T&G yard. I have gone to the libraries and historical societies but it is remarkable how little infomation has survived 90 years. I have about 20 CADrail designs for these roads but none of them are totally satisfactory at this point. David Myrick's books are about the only information left.

Anyway I am stuck at this point. I am tempted to pull out the B&O diesels, repaint them in WP or UP colors and model the Reno Branch. You thoughts about how to finally make up your mind and get past the planning stage is requested. Thanks - Nevin

[selector]

It may be that your indecision is a sign that you really want, or need, more information in order to make up your mind.  Subconsciously, you feel you aren't really ready, nor are you sufficiently informed, to make up your mind.   So, if it were me, I would get into the books for another 30-60 hours of reading until the lightbulb went on.  In other words, find materials on local history with respect to railroads, and get more familiar with those in your current list.  At some point, I'm fairly certain, you will get that sudden rush and a decision will become concrete...at which point you'll be on your way.

[tstage]

Nevin,

I'd have to agree with Crandell.  Take your time in your decision making process and do NOT rush into something before you've spent some time reading and research.  Enjoy the time and freedom to make discoveries about the various ideas you have mentioned.  One will eventually come to the forefront.  On the other hand, you might be pleasantly surprised by an unexpected discovery you haven't even considered yet.

Nevin, keep us posted what you end up doing.

Tom

[IRONROOSTER]

I'd put the exercise equipment in the garage and use the spare bedroom. 

This site http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/ has some stuff on using Sn3.5 (HO standard gauge track for S 3 ft gauge railroads)

As for prototype to follow, that's something you have to decide - how much research vs. how much prototype faithfulness do you want?  Jack Burgess appears to have spent as much or more time on research than on the model.  If you are not keen on the research part then you'll have to stick to the better known railroads or guesstimate the gaps.

Enjoy

Paul 

 

[UP2CSX]

Not much time to reply now but I agree with Selector. Keep doing research and reading until you get something that really strikes your fancy. That being said, take a look at the Nevada Northern. It has just about everything - steam, diesel, heavy industrial uses, long stretches of mainline through the desert between two terminals that is easy to compress. You can model anything from the NN in it's prime shipping out millions of tons of copper a year down through the inevitable decline and its rebirth as a tourist railroad. My sentimental favorite is the T&G but I think the NN would make a much more interesting model.

[wjstix]

Yes, as Richard Nixon said in "Six Crisis", the agonizing part is making the decision, once you know what you want to do the rest will be easy. I would experiment a little - since you have both HO and On30, why not get some HO sectional-with-roadbed track (Bachmann for example) and do a few tests - a small simple layout or diorama or switching layout or something that you can operate both HO and On30 on.

BTW there's nothing wrong with freelancing, if you like V&T etc. could do a free-lance route that connects with the V&T and other regional lines...or do a free-lanced branch of a real railroad like the Tonopah & Tidewater or whatever. 

[bearman]

Ah, Reno, one of my favorite cities.  In addition to the other advice, you might want to head east into the Calif gold country.  While it is not Nevada, you might get some ideas for a freelance.  And, I am not sure, but the Inyo country south of you, bordering on Calif/Nev also had a railroad at one time.  I think there is a freelanced Inyo & White Mtn RR somewhere on the web.

[tomikawaTT]

I can understand your dilemma, especially when trying to be true to a prototype whose roadbed has been devoid of track since some time prior to your birth.  There really aren't a lot of resources available when the primary interest of the original parties was to get rich, not document exactly how they went about doing so.  Given the paucity of hard data, it's all too easy to succumb to paralysis by analysis.

A possibility you might consider is what I would call the Louis L'Amour maneuver.  While his stories had some very tenuous roots in Western folklore, all but a few of his characters and locations were the product of his own imagination.  So grab a map of Nevada, note real places and historical facts, add in whatever fictitious fillers and icing appeal to you, then use that to develop your givens and druthers for layout planning.  So the prototype used wyes to turn locos where the land was sufficiently flat.  Stand some of the countryside on edge, then install your turntable of choice.  (Of course, you want to keep this reasonable.  Nobody was shipping wheat, corn or apples out of central Nevada!)

However you decide to go, let us know.  It's always interesting to follow how someone else makes their modeling decisions.

(Incidentally, I was given exclusive use of the non-climate-controlled double garage.  The cars share the parking apron in front of it.)

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a Clark County garage)

[MisterBeasley]

Given all the options, maybe you should start a few track plans to check feasibility.  At least, take a look at what you would build in the spare bedroom, vs. what you would build in the garage.  The limitations and benefits of each would become more obvious that way.  Also, it might guide you in some of the other decisions.

[nof]

Why not consider N? 40 feet of HO equals 22 feet of N pretty good!

[ndbprr]

Forty + years in the hobby and I can tell you unequivically there is no "final decision".

[pcarrell]

Question 1: The word of the day is "comfort".

Question 2: You said that your eyesight isn't what it used to be, so size is an important factor.  The question you have to ask yourself is: How important?

Question 3: Only you can answer that.  Crandall hit the nail on the head though.  You aren't ready for that decision yet.  You need to do more homework.

I'm curious though.....why do you have to do a Nevada road?  Why can't you do B&O, MEC, CN, or even The Orient Express if you want to?

[NevinW]

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far, your suggestions are very helpful.  I think that the idea that I can't settle on a prototype and a design because of a conscious or unconscious need for more information is very valid.  I lived in WV for 15 years and my last model railroad was a very satisfying representation of the B&O in downtown Morgantown WV.  It was fun because it is now a rail trail and it was easy to model as most of the buildings of the 1950's were still there and there were plenty of pictures.  However, I was starting to complain about being unable to see the detail of HO when it was torn down for the move back to Nevada, so the idea of moving to O scale was being contemplated there.  I had a nice basement there, but there are few basements in Reno and I didn't get one.  The relative lack of space in my new house has made the idea of staying in HO more appealing.

 As far as why model a Nevada railroad, there are several reasons for that:  I was born and raised in Nevada, I am now an employee of the University of Nevada and a member of the state historical society.  It was finding David Myrick's books on the railroads of Nevada while in college that got me into railroads along time ago.  Further, Dale Darney, of V&T Shops fame took pity on a poor student many years ago and taught him much about modeling.  He was a real expert on Nevada railroads and it rubbed off on me.  I think it would be really neat to build a "Burgess-Yosemite Valley RR type" model railroad based on the the T&T or T&G.  It is certainly not being done very often.  It is amazing to me how much information about these roads is missing.  I need to take a trip to the museum down in Tonopah to see if they have more information.  It is just after 20 designs I can't settle on one that I really like enough to start building.  -  Nevin   

[selector]

Nevin, it seems to be that successful plans are centred around a limited number of design elements.  Going to a museum, and even taking two or three weekends to hike along the rights of way (if that can be done safely and responsibly) might spur you to doodling out something that you can sink your teeth into.  For example, find archival material on their engine servicing facilities and pick one to have on your layout.  Learn about its own layout.  From that facility, what came next on the line...or after that, what was there that you could place nearest the engine servicing for the sake of compression and interest in operations?

The design elements are the building blocks.  List four or five of them as you read and walk around, and then begin to draw from scratch.  I would only hope that you will get excited and find yourself building a huge head of steam ere long.

[pcarrell]

OK, that makes more sense now. (The Nevada choice)

Just playing evils advocate here, but since you like some size to the equipment (O scale's strong point), but you also like the compactness of HO, have you considered S scale?  An Sn3 layout would have all of the trackage advantages (curve radii and so on) of HO, while still being large enough to be seen and worked on with less then perfect eyesight.  Just a thought......

[HarryHotspur]

When I was faced with a similar choice of garage vs smaller space inside the house, I gave it a lot of thought, but in the end it boiled down to only one issue: where would I enjoy it most? When I looked at it that way, it became a no brainer - it went inside. No way I could enjoy tinkering with or operating the RR in 90+ degree summer heat or freezing winter temps in the garage.

[pcarrell]

When I was faced with a similar choice of garage vs smaller space inside the house, I gave it a lot of thought, but in the end it boiled down to only one issue: where would I enjoy it most? When I looked at it that way, it became a no brainer - it went inside. No way I could enjoy tinkering with or operating the RR in 90+ degree summer heat or freezing winter temps in the garage.

Not to mention what that kind of expansion and contraction does to track!

[selector]

Aside from all the frustrations this hobby provides us, isn't it also what makes it so rich and rewarding?  A garage offers substantial hurdles to a reliable track system, but if one puts one's mind to it (yeah, and a some cash), few obstacles remain in place.  It's all about compromise.  Indoor is definitely handy, and somewhat safer and cleaner for the most part.  An entire garage (some of us only wish) offers grandiose plans some real promise and even life, but it gets expensive at the end of the utlity year when your monthly instalments show a deficit of about $300 in dehumidifiying/airconditioning/heating costs.

This ain't a cheap hobby.

[reklein]

You say you like modeling history, so go down to those museums and research the trackplans of the areas your'e interested in .You may be able to use part as Layout Design Elements to use on a shelf layout in the exercise room. A series of diorama like shelves would work well if you are more modeler than operator. If you are more operator the garage might be better.

[UP2CSX]

My brother lived in Carson City for many years so I'm very familiar with the area. I'm sure you know they are rebuilding the old V&T from VC to just outside of Carson. Check out the ongoing construction for some layout ideas.

As far as the garage vs. bedroom space, don't be seduced by the extra space in the garage. You probably know this already but it gets really hot in Reno during the summer (but it's a dry heat ) and really cold during the winter. The Washoe Zephyr is not a train. It's strong winds that are common in the winter and spring and move a lot of real estate around, including half of the sand and dust within 10 miles of your home. You'll find it hard enough to keep it out of the house let alone the garage. I'm lucky enough to have a heated and air-conditioned basement. There is no way I could build and run a model railroad in my unheated and uncooled garage here in Alabama and I suspect you will come to the same conclusion if you try it in Reno. 

[fwright]

Since I've come to realize that I enjoy the research, planning, building, and testing as much as the "prototype operations" at the supposed end of the journey, I've become much more inclined to leap into building a series of LDE sections or mini/micro layouts.  If they can fit in with a modular group, so much the better.

The advantage of this is rather than trying for the ultimate plan/theme/prototype and ending up in analysis/paralysis, I sample a variety of themes and concepts.  Those that later don't suit me go by the wayside.  My hero in this respect is Harold Minkwitz.  Here's a guy that has used the same 4x8 layout for an HO 1870s theme, OO 1870s, On30 in 1905, and currently Sn42.  Although he has plans to expand beyond the 4x8, he's having fun now.

In my case, I've discarded the '20s and eastern railroading as themes, except for the Maine 2 footers, after trying them.  Now that Bachmann has come out with the On30 Forneys, along with the Climax, Shay, and improved the Porters, I'm being tempted that direction again.  I'm adding a loop of HO track with a couple of spurs to the 5x9 3 rail O, and will probably end up trying the On30 to see what I really think of it in the flesh.

Meanwhile, plans for 2 sections of the HOn3 Oregon coastal logging and common carrier line are pretty much complete (2ft x 8ft and 18" x 6ft), and await my relocation to the new house in Colorado Springs to begin construction.

I suspect only a minority of us have the focus and/or discipline to stick with a specific prototype and era for decades on end a la Jack Burgess.  I commend those who do - the results are spectacular.

I am personally will not build a garage layout for the same reason I won't build a duck under layout in a bedroom.  In both cases, I know I can have a much bigger and more complete layout if I were to give into the temptation.  But I also know how much more reluctant I will be to actually work on the layout with the relative discomfort of constant ducking under or temperatures and dirt in the garage.  I guess the Homeowners Association rules at the new house about not leaving cars parked outside permanently will assist me in resisting the garage temptation.

Another possibility in Reno is starting/finding a modular group with similar thematic interests.

just some thoughts

Fred W

[NevinW]

To pcarrell: 

Back in the early 1980's I built an Sn3 SP narrow gauge module of Laws, California so I am very familiar with the advantages of Sn3.  It was pretty cool and pictures of it were published in the Shortline & Narrow Gauge Gazette 25 years ago.  Unfortunately I gave it and the equipment away when I went off to do my residency.  Since Sn3 and HO standard gauge is so similar in size and I an interested more in the standard gauge mining roads I have not seriously considered going back to Sn3 however those PBL SPNG box cars are really nice..........      - Nevin

[NevinW]

To everyone: 

 This thread has been very helpful.  After thinking about the disadvantages of a garage layout and discussing this with my wife last night.  I have decided to build a modular layout in the spare bedroom.  The problems mentioned in this tread about the lack of comfort while working in the garage convinced me.  I will build it in sections in the garage workshop area and then take up to the spare bedroom to do the final assembly there. 

Based on Myrick's books and the research I have done so far, I think I can develop LDEs for Beatty, Rhyolite and Goldfield that will fit in a around the room design.  I may have to use modeler's license and install turntables instead of the wyes they actually used to turn engines but I think I can live with that.  I'll come up with some ideas and post them here.  I am also going to go back and do an On30 version.  Then the decision will come down to HO vs On30 and/or T&T (Beatty) vs T&G (Goldfield).  So I have made some progress.  Thanks for the help. -  Nevin