My First Layout

[Anonymous]

I have a 11' by 11' room I am building a layout for myself and grandchildren.  I love a challenge and am looking forward to this.  I need to know some of the basics that all of you know but I have not found yet.  My lay out will be HO and am planning no turns smaller then 22" radius, I will go out of this room into a closet of what ever size it takes and build a helix and come back into the train room at an upper level.  Some questions I have are how close can a set of tracks be to another, does that change on curves or switch yards.  I sometime have trouble visualizing tracks going over one and another.  Should the helix be a double or just a single and when do you go from one to another.  I am in my 60 and about to retire because of my health. I have trouble with my back and bending, is it okay to install a small section that is removeable and what would some of the controling features to a removeable section.

Thanks for your help,

Grandpa McGuire

[tstage]

Grandpa,

First off: to the forum!  Good to have you aboard!

Let's see if I can't address a few of the issues you mentioned:

• Layout - I think you are wise to keep your curves R22" or greater.  That will definitely had to the realism - both visually and operationally.  I have a 4 x 8 so R22" is the largest that I can get away with.  I presume you are thinking about an around-the-room layout?

• Helixes - Unless that closet of yours is a least 5' deep and wide, I don't think a helix is going to be practical for the size room you have.  Helixes take up a huge footprint and can eat up quite a bit of valuable real estate.  I would think about a 2% or < grade up to your next level.  And a helix is NO small undertaking.  Just ask Art Hill.

• Track centers minimums (HO):
• Mainline - 2"-2-1/4"
• Curves - 2-3/8" to 2-1/2"
• Yard - 2"

• Height clearanaces - You will need at least 3"+ of clearance to pass one track over another.

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NOTE: The NMRA site has all the specs you need for both this and the height clearances above.  I'll see if I can't find that direct link for you....

 

Found it: http://www.nmra.org/standards/consist.html#standards

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• Getting older - Grandpa, if you having back and bending problems now, you should think seriously about how you can minimize that with your layout plan.  Even constructing a helix is going to have some of that.  If you haven't thought about it already, I'd lean towards an around-the-room shelf layout, one that is no more than 24" deep.  Also, I'd have a lift up or lift out section at the doorway for easier access into the room.  No duckunders.

• Other considerations to muse over:
  
• What do you want to accomplish with your layout?
• What era are you thinking about modeling?  Steam?  Diesel?  Both?
  
• How do you want to control our laout?  DC or DCC?
  

Tom

[pcarrell]

Tom did such a great job of answering your questions that I'm only left with this little tidbit of info to pass on. Give this a read. It only takes a couple of minutes and it'll help a bunch!

[tstage]

Thanks, Philip.  Chip's Beginner primer on layout design is an excellent link that had crossed my mind but forgot to include.  Good suggestion.

Tom

[UP2CSX]

Since I'm now over 60, I'm officially an "old fart". I agree with all the information that has been posted so far (aren't these guys great?) and would also urge you to avoid a helix if at all possible. They do take up a lot of room and are very intolerant of even minor imperfections. Have you thought about the idea of starting with a smaller single level layout that can be expanded if you find you have the time and energy? My layout is a dogbone that's a total of 16 feet long but only two feet wide in the middle with two 4x4 section on both ends. I've found this is more than adequate for a town, small yard, some street running to an industry at the end of downtown, and three other industry spurs. I'm not getting any younger so I do hurt from time to time, especially crawling around under the layout do wiring. You might save yourself a lot of grief by starting off a little smaller and moving up later.

Regards, Jim

[selector]

Grandpa, your approach is one borne of wisdom and temperence.  You know to find out how to avoid common pitfalls, and have sought advice.  What a good start!!!

Probably the biggest achilles heel of any layout is how well it can be managed.  Managing a layout encompasses its construction, but also how it will be run and maintained over time.  Things shift, expand, shrink, settle, dry, and twist, and that's just us builders....you should see what a layout will do over time.

So, apart from the excellent start you have given yourself, and all the coherent and heartfelt advice from your contributors so far, pay strict heed to how you will reach things that go wrong.   I refer to access.  You may be a robust and statuesque man who can still reach most of the way over a standard billiards table, but you know you can't count on that for long.  On the other hand, if your back is cricky now, how will it stand up to leaning over enough to allow you to line a turnout about 3 full feet away from the layout's front edge?  Or, if a car falls off the tracks for any number of reasons (say you forgot to line the turnout), now you have twice the bother to deal with way out there...the turnout and the car.  I hope I am being clear.

If you layout design must of necessity be wide to get you the grades and heights you want, plus generous curves (always a good idea), the temptation will be to have wide expanses on which to place those grades and curves.  You will therefore have to build access hatches that you'll have to stoop to get to, maybe even crawl, and then reach above yourself to unlock and displace the hatch, lift it out, and place it where you can get to it and where is will safely rest out of reach of your knees and feet.

I won't go on at more length other than to say you will have to find a fine balance between what you can do and providing a robust, interesting, and rewarding introduction to the hobby for your young charges.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Tom,

 Thanks for taking the time to help an old man.  I am planning on going around the room and you all have convinced me to drop the helix for now.  I was planning on taking the room out of an adjoining room not my train room.

I am going to use the Digitrax DCC system.  I am sure I will need to ask more about setting up sectors and putting in switching machines.  I am planning on adding lighting for night time runs as well as day time.  My building will have lights in them as well as crossing arms and lights that function as the train moves around the room.

Go to go for now,

Grandpa

[larak]

Hi Grandpa and

  !

The advice above is excellent as usual. 

When you get around to track planning, you might want to get this book from your local library. It's packed full of great information. You'll probably end up buying a copy at some point.

(Link to a couple of book reviews)

Best of luck.

Karl 

[fiatfan]

I can't add much advice to what has already been given.  If you've been lurking here for a while, you know that just about any question you come up with will be responded too by some very knowledgeable modelers.

The only advice I do have is "HAVE FUN!"

 

Tom 

[Gandy Dancer]

I will go out of this room into a closet of what ever size it takes and build a helix and come back into the train room at an upper level.

Is this around the room, or back over the top of the original?   Is the same helix going to take the train back down?

Some questions I have are how close can a set of tracks be to another, does that change on curves or switch yards.

There have been recent (like last week) threads on parallel track spacing.  Personally I try to get 2" on straights, and widen it on curves.  The sharper the radius the wider separation is required. For under 22" I use 3" separation.  22" and over 2.5" should work.  

Should the helix be a double or just a single and when do you go from one to another.

If you don't make it a double and if you are running two trains, it will always be a bottleneck.  There will probably be more track in the helix than the rest of the layout.  

is it okay to install a small section that is removeable and what would some of the controling features to a removeable section.

Some parts can certainly be built in smaller sections (probably not the helix).   There will need to be some way of easily connecting the track to the power so you are not depending on rail joiners.  I use molex plugs available from Radio Shack.  They are keyed for position/polarity so there is no chance of plugging it in wrong once it is wired properly.

[BRJN]

I started off with a track plan - the 2'x6' Timesaver, a switching puzzle - and will eventually build up from there.

I do not have standard benchwork.  Instead, I went to Menard's and found a modular shelf system, then adapted that for my use.  You should have seen the look on the clerk's face when I was ready to buy five short and one long legs!  (I already had a saw...)

Scenery is primitive - I have purchased a number of kits, mostly easy types.  My 'ground' is a couple of styrofoam sheets glued together.  It looks like it has just snowed.  I found a sky-blue insulating foam panel and laid it on its side as a backdrop.  From across the garage, it looks all right.

I mention all this as prelude to my real advice: do not be afraid to start with 'temporary fill-in' projects, knowing you (or the grandchildren) will replace them later with better stuff.  You do not have to create a masterwork layout on the first try.  Go ahead and be an amateur for a while.

Find out what you enjoy doing, and what you don't.  See if your wife, children or grandchildren like the stuff you would rather not do.  Invite them to contribute projects or parts / labor for whatever you cannot handle yourself.

[jockellis]

G'day, Grandpa & Y'all,
I would suggest that you don't make the first layout your last layout. The suggestion to use a layout book was a good one. I'd consider one of the easy Atlas plans to start out with and, by all means, buy as many of the Model Railroader books on scenic tips as you can get. If you do an easy first layout, your grandchildren can probably help. And you'll learn what you want and what you don't want or need.
The KISS rule (Keep It simple, Stupid) method of first layouts will mean that your chances of success are greatly enhanced. And your later version will be better for it.
Bergie, I know we aren't supposed to advertise, but I've just got to suggest your books for someone just starting out.
Incidentally, you probably will never want to use up the whole room for track. You need space for a workbench and tools, etc.

[Wm Hime]

Grampa,

designing, building ,and troubleshooting a helix will eat a large protion of your time and (fun). You can do a self 18" in. above your main layout 12 to 14" ln. wide to run more layout w/out direct access. You can even use N scale and a shallower self to create "forced perspective". Add a few well placed mirrors to create depth beyond to boundries of your room.

                                               Freelancer; Great Lakes Rail Corp.

                                                             Wm Hime

[dstarr]

Hi Grandpa and

  !

The advice above is excellent as usual. 

When you get around to track planning, you might want to get this book from your local library. It's packed full of great information. You'll probably end up buying a copy at some point.

(Link to a couple of book reviews)

Best of luck.

Karl 

That John Armstrong book is an absolute must read, and a fun read as well, even before you start benchwork. 

   For operation with grandchildren, its much more fun for the children if each child gets to run his own train, which implies as many main line loops as you have grandchildren, OR,  DCC and multipe trains running around a single track main line in the same direction.  

   An around the room layout will give you much more track than a table in the center of the room.  Think about liftout sections or bridges to get the track past the doors.  Think about walkaround control.  Engineers have a hand held throttle and they follow their trains around the layout.  Turnout control buttons are located on the facia.  

   Also think about " a minimum working set".  Get a portion of the track up so you can run trains before the entire layout is finished.  Model railroads are seldom ever truly finished, and who wants to wait that long before running trains?