Wiring in conduit???

[Greg H.]

kyboy227

I am building a permanent outdoors layout.  Should wiring be placed in conduit of some sorts or can the wiring be buried under ballast, etc., without conduit?

 Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

While I admit to not knowing squat about railroads, and almost as little about model railroads, one thing I do know a little more about and that is landscaping and building remodeling.

Before you go and make plans and set the in concrete, it might be a good idea to talk to the folks that work down at the local building code office.

In some places they make no distinction between electrical lines buried for low voltage purposes and 120 V for other purposes, in which case you may be required by law to use conduit - in some places anything down to a certain depth must be conduit, but under that depth it may be a high quality romex.

Several yrs ago, in another house I ran into a problem with the sidewalk/drive lamp, and found that when they built the house they ran romex less than 2 inches below the drive and front walk, and at the time they built the place that was ok, but now if I want to move that lamp post ( even just 6 inches ), I would have to replace the entire 40' with conduit that lay a minimum of 4 inches below the soil surface and if I wanted to keep the romex it has to be at least 12" down ( either way it would meant having to jackhammer my driveway and front walk.

 

[Radish Bahn]

I think that the decision to use conduit or just bury your cable depends on a number of factors. If you have long runs of cable with few intermediate connections (For example if you are running to a remote junction box) then it makes sense to use conduit. If there are many connections to make along the length of the track it is more practical to bury the cable alongside the track.

For our garden railway in Elora (see Garden Railways February 2002 issue) we just buried a multiconductor cable directly in the ballast beside the track. This worked perfectly for the 11 years that we operated this railway before we moved and built our new railway. Some of the details are shown in the June 1995 issue of Garden Railways magazine. Our track was laid on 4 to 6 inches of limestone crusher fines and the cable was buried about 2 inches deep. We never had any problems with it moving around because the limestone sets up firm when it is watered. It was easy to unbury the wiring if something needed to get changed. The wiring ran right along side the track and it was not in any danger of getting cut by a shovel because there was no reason to dig there.

The cable we used was 5 conductor with a PVC jacket. I think that it was intended for a TV antenna rotator.

For our new garden railway, the Radish Bahn, I will use conduit for some of the longer runs and bury the wiring directly in the ballast in areas where a lot of connections need to be made, for example where there are multiple switch motors or signals.

As noted in some of the other replies, for 110V wiring you will have to follow the local electrical code and conduit is probably your only safe option.

Good luck! ..... Barry

[LEEJO114]

I find that if I place wiring in conduit that I will have an opportunity to add or replace wiring that is covered by the ballast. In outdoor installations it also protects the wire frrom weather and  damage from the ballast.Do not use metal conduit as it will rust or short-out if some of the wiing has disintergating insulation or taped splices.Good wiring will relieve potential problems down the road.

[kyboy227]

Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions. All help is greatly appreciated!

 kyboy227

[kyboy227]

Thanks for the comments, Greg!  I appreciate all help....

 

[kstrong]

I don't know that it's necessary, as I know many folks who simply bury their wires under the track and have had no issues. (I haven't run track power in 25 years, so I can't speak to firsthand knowledge.) One benefit of using conduit that I can speak to--it keeps errant shovel blades from causing undue damage.

Later,

K

[Mojave Oasis]

I am expermenting with running my wire on homemade telephone poles.

(Tried to insert picture but I am computer ignorant and could not figure out how.)

JIM

 

 

[Capt Bob Johnson]

I used conduit from house to layout, but did direct bury within the layout.   If I had to do it again I would use conduit thruout for all 110 AC lines.   I would use more conduit in low voltage runs; but probably not completely.

   The most important thought is to home run all your track power leads back to the power pack or a distribution terminal board, rather than doing a daisy chain of leads!     I run a lead to the track about every 50 feet; it's probably overkill, but does eliminate some problems I've seen on other layouts!

[Sharon Van Nest]

 

I have a few thoughts on this to share. Frist is depends upon whether you are using line voltage, aka 110Volt systems or low voltage. The distance you are running also bears out what gauge you need. However conduit fill is not a difficult thing to figure out. Most electrical pvc conduit it perfect for your application. To waterproof the connections you will need some waterproof pvc glue.(purple container).

once you have your design as to where you will be running lines look at measurements. Note if you are running 110V you need to bury the conduit at least 18" deep per the NEC electical code.  Low voltage can be shallower at about 6". Legally a permit would be required for 110V lines.(disclaimer). The electical industry has many sizes of pipe and fitting available. Most 90 ells will work fine and the diameter does not need to be too huge unless you are running a great many cables in it. Plumbing ells are much smaller and hence not too usable unless you increase the diameter as shown in another posting here. Look at your local supply house and see what fittings are available there that you can use. This method is the cheapest and quickest way to have a great secure wiring underground. email me if you desire more info or help. Nearly 20 years in the electical suppy business really helps!

Sharon

[g. gage]

I direct bury outdoor low voltage lighting wire. My railroad is on the side of a hill and sometimes I have to re-bury wire at the top; bringing dirt from the bottom back up to the top.

Have fun, Rob

[ttrigg]

Conduit or direct bury? I've had a little bit of experience with that one. Let's see now, direct bury wire comes on a spool. It has been on that spool for quite some time. Even when rolled off the spool it will want to coil back up. Even buried under rocks it wanted to coil back up. When planting trees and other foliage, any uncovered wire wanted to resist being reburied. Conduit: What a hassle, got to dig a trench to bury it (‘bout half as deep as the trench used for direct bury.) PVC pipe only comes in 10-foot lengths and has to be cut to the size needed.

OK, enough of the sarcasm. Conduit or direct bury? It all can be reduced to a singe point on each side of the issue. Conduit - bury once when first installed. Direct bury - rebury every couple of weeks, especially in the early spring

[two tone]

Hi   Use conduit by all means that will protect your cables, I use 1.5 to 2 inch plastic waste pipe IE bath waste  but think about how many cables you want to put thiugh it mine carries about 20 pairs so the bigger the better. You do not want to risk damageing any cable when putting more though the pipe.

[Greg Elmassian]

 Yes, use conduit, and then you can use heavier gauge and less expensive wire. Solid copper with the thin insulation. I use 10 gauge, but I pull a lot of amps.

It's one of the good things I did in my planning. Be sure to use sweeps to come to the surface, not 90 degree fittings. I ran separate sections that end in a sweep, and then another sweep right next to it to go to the next location.

Regards, Greg

[kyboy227]

I am building a permanent outdoors layout.  Should wiring be placed in conduit of some sorts or can the wiring be buried under ballast, etc., without conduit?

 Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...