Power Supplies

[Anonymous]

There is 10 amp or 15 amp [drive] then individual power transformers for the [accessories] you have on our lay out. My question {s}are what is the "amp" for the general train in G scale?  What is the residual loss in stainless steel v. copper? How much track can be put down before the need for two transformers? Does the UEC "uniform electrical code" need to be followed? Is it possible to piggy-back an [accessory] and a [drive] transformer "increasing distance"?

[two tone]

Hi fireman, I have a 5amp power supply and that powers 400 feet of track no problem, I use the train engineer to control my layout all my track is LGB brass.No matter where on the layout I meter it there is no drop in the power supply. All my accessories are LGB powered by a 15v power supply My accessories are all aristo craft units controled by the train engineer. I have had no problems in over 5 years of running track and accessories.    Hope this helps

[markperr]

Fireman;

I suspect that you will get quite a bit of "distance" out of a 10 or 15 amp machine. 

I have seen layouts with as much as 1000' of track use a single 10 amp power pack.  There is next to no current drop on the rails.  Current is a function of the load, in this case being the locomotive.  Now it's possible that you may experience a slight drop in voltage along the line between where it's connected and it's furthest point, but that can be alleviated by running several feeders from a single pair of wires along the tracks.  Example:  Run 12 gauge outdoor low voltage wire from the output of the controller and place it parallel to the tracks.  Connect feeders between the main wire and the track (always maintaining proper polarity) about every 100' or so.  If you do that, you will experience no problems with electrical delivery throught your layout. A cheap multimeter set on resistence would help you out during this step.  You want to make sure that the tracks aren't accidently shorted together before hooking them up to your power.

While there are regulations in the NEC regarding low voltage operation, this is a hobby, and the output voltages that we use present no real danger to the average person.  My only recomendation would be that you plug your transformer into a GFCI outlet in the event that your power pack should inadvertently become wet and short.  The GFCI will go a long way toward saving you a costly replacement of a power pack as well as protecting anyone who might unwittingly get within reach of the AC.

There is not enough difference in continuity between stainless and brass (not copper) track to make a difference.  Cost of both is relatively comparable since the price of brass track has skyrocketed.  Stainless is less subject to corrosion and needs less cleaning than brass.

It's unnecessary and potentially dangerous to hook up a second power pack or a step up transformer unless you are knowledgeable about electricity.

Some power packs provide an accessory output for trackside items.  You'll need to research the various manufacturers and models to see which one meets your needs.  If you use a separate power pack to control these trackside items, just make sure that that power pack is plugged into a GFCI as well. 

Mark

[EMPIRE II LINE]

There is 10 amp or 15 amp [drive] then individual power transformers for the [accessories] you have on our lay out. My question {s}are what is the "amp" for the general train in G scale?  What is the residual loss in stainless steel v. copper? How much track can be put down before the need for two transformers? Does the UEC "uniform electrical code" need to be followed? Is it possible to piggy-back an [accessory] and a [drive] transformer "increasing distance"?

Fireman,

That depends on what all you want to run, I have the largest power packs commercially made, I think, the Bridgewerks TDR-25, 30 volt 25 amp.

I run one consist of the Great Northern, Empire Builder, 4 USA F-3's, ABBA with Phoenix sound, followed by 18 lighted streamliners.

If I did not have an auxillary fan cooling the power unit the heat sink blows in less than 5 minutes of running.

This train consist pulls 22 to 24 amps, at 18 to 20 volts. Take a look here.......

[enginear]

hey empire, tried to send you pics of my railroad but it came back as a bad address?

I've got one lionel ph1 180 watt pack driving 3 to four  mth engines at once. It's about how many engines you want to run at the same time. The wire gauge 12 is big enough to get the voltage all around my 300' plus double mainline layout. 

[gbbari]

Fireman - as the first few replies to your inquiry have suggested, there are a wide range of conditions that exist on different hobbyists' railroads. "Average" is a very tough specification to define, except that it is a mathematical term that has little relevance to reality.

A single Bachmann loco may pull a bit over 1 amp depending on how many cars it's struggling to pull.  A two-motor loco (steam or diesel) may pull close to 3 amps when the smoke unit is working; figure additional current if it's pulling lighted passenger cars.  Empire II's "Great Northern" consist that he posted here is probably near or at the extreme high end in our hobby.  

You must determine exactly what "trains" YOU will be running on YOUR layout to calculate the current load on your power supply. To measure the current draw, simply place an ammeter (a multimeter that measure amps) in series with one of your track power leads and take measurements while running each of your trains. The highest current may well occur when the engine is farthest from the track power connection or on the steepest uphill grade.

You *can* use multiple supplies (as "boosters") but that requires isolating your track into blocks where each block is run by a separate supply, and it is a bit more involved than just that.  LGB designed some of it's power equipment to be used in that manner, but they wrote an entire pamphlet about it.  It is a bit too much to describe in a post. Besides, that strategy is better adapted to MTS (DCC) controlled layouts than straight analog DC powered layouts.

As has been mentioned, the low voltage of large scale trains (0-24VDC) does not fall under serious electrical codes, but the 120VAC power required to run the power supplies falls under the same codes that apply to any other outdoor installations.  Some folks avoid problems by keeping the power supplies indoors and running only the low voltage track power wiring outside. Where distance would cause problems using that method, you need a code-compliant source of 120VAC (underground conduit; GFI protected circuit) near the layout where, in a weather proof enclosure, you install the power supply equipment.

 

[ttrigg]

There is 10 amp or 15 amp [drive] then individual power transformers for the [accessories] you have on our lay out. My question {s}are what is the "amp" for the general train in G scale? What is the residual loss in stainless steel v. copper? How much track can be put down before the need for two transformers? Does the UEC "uniform electrical code" need to be followed? Is it possible to piggy-back an [accessory] and a [drive] transformer "increasing distance"?

Fireman:

The need for a second power transformer will be IF you decide to run a second train on a second line. In my case I have a Bridgeworks 10 amp that drives the main line, yard and through a series of LGB "switch blocks" drives the switches, light (in the city park, yards and buildings etc). The transformer that came with the LGB starter set now drive the street car up and down the climb up to the top of the waterfall on an automated reversing unit.

The street car makes the trip to the top of the falls via the "bridge" as seen on the left.  Other that that the Bridgeworks transformer drives everything else.