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Thinking of a garden railroad...costs?

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Rob
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Thinking of a garden railroad...costs?
Posted by Rob on Saturday, February 3, 2007 8:20 AM

Hi all,

I am thinking of expanding my hobby in the next few years to garden railroads. I will be having a family soon and want to move the show (N Scale right now) out of the basement and into the yard. My wife enjoys gardening and I like trains...maybe we can combine the two! Here is what I am looking for. American diesel, 5-10 car freight. I was wondering the costs associated with a manageable sized set-up, maybe a continuous loop set up in a raised garden bed (30x15 give or take...it could be bigger) area with a few sidings to spot cars. With young kids I am definately looking for durability in case they get bumped. I don't want to break the bank, but don't want junk.   Besides reading material, what do I need?  Thanks...I am totaly new to this so bear with me.     Thanks ----Rob  

 

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  • From: Salisbury, England
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Posted by devils on Saturday, February 3, 2007 10:18 AM
Rob
See the Aristocraft and USA trains websites for what's available for Modern US stock. Plenty of choice from RS3's, SW7's and GP7's through to C44-9W's and 40ft boxcars through to doublestacks.
For an idea on price try Trainworld or St Aubin Station, (I do Pounds sterling not dollars!)
I'd recommend 4ft radius, (8ft diameter) track minimum, and you've got LGB or for a bigger range Aristocraft who both do weatherproof brass track.
Control systems, you'll need at least a 5 amp power supply to run anything bigger than a 4 wheel critter. Consider DCC and I'd recommend something that can output or be upgraded to 10 amps. Aristo and USA GP's and SD's can draw up to 3 amps each. Digitrax or NCE are two I've looked at as an upgrade from my LGB MTS digital system.
Have a browse see what makes you tick and come back and ask for more info there's loads of help available here.
Here's some inspiration from Mikes site http://www.cjandm.com/Pictures.html
Paul
  • Member since
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  • From: North, San Diego Co., CA
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Posted by ttrigg on Saturday, February 3, 2007 12:04 PM
 Rob wrote:

I was wondering the costs associated with a manageable sized set-up, maybe a continuous loop set up in a raised garden bed (30x15 give or take...it could be bigger) area with a few sidings to spot cars. With young kids I am definately looking for durability in case they get bumped. I don't want to break the bank, but don't want junk. 


$6.50 per foot.

That is for track on the ground and using.  That is the average cost per foot of track I have on the ground.  The costs include track, rail joints (both soldered LGB slip on connectors and Rail Clamps.)  gravel for sub roadbed, pea gravel for along the right of way, crusher fines for ballast, gardeners fabric (weed control under the rails and lining the roadbed trench) switches (turnouts, electric remote) wiring to power the rails and switches.  The estimated cost does not include the "control panel" or engines and cars.  I use LGB brass "flex" rails (1.5 meter long) and there are less expensive rails out there to choose from.

Tom Trigg

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 3, 2007 1:39 PM

There right on that the curve needs to be 8' or more. Because some companies there tains will not run on say 4' but need the extra to turn. As for track just bought new at my shop I use and bought 4 boxes flex track (very long) and shorter peices which was around 1000.00 +/- of brass track from Aristo-craft (buy it at your fav. shop, it does come in USA or Europen track). Switchs I use LGB motorized and bought several of those right, left, 3 way, cross over and others I bought. Just pulled all old track up from mine and finished cleaning the tracks so they look as new as the ones I got in that are new.

Sign - Welcome [#welcome] and remember to read the older post and please ask questions. There might be a G Scale group of guys in your area.

As for the wife you can make a plan that she gets to plant and you do the RR. So both enjoy!

 

  • Member since
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  • From: North, San Diego Co., CA
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Posted by ttrigg on Saturday, February 3, 2007 4:21 PM

Rob;
As Toad Frog says "remember to read the older post and please ask questions."  There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum.  Some of these discussions revolve around the different characteristics and weathering (by mother nature) of the different types of rail, brass, stainless steel, nickel silver, and aluminum.  They each have their own ardent supporters based upon the characteristics that each individual desires.  Myself, I like LGB brass because of the color it turns here in my area.  I'm sure Ian (another ardent supporter of brass rail from Australia) will chime in on brass.  He prefers a different type of brass because of its "weathering" effects in his area.  I would seriously recommend you use the longer "flex track", in the 1.5 meter lengths or longer.  

Many advantages there:
1. Longer rails mean less connections means less chance of a wheel "picking" an out of alignment joint and causing a derailment.
2.  Flex track allows you to make curves to a diameter that will best fit your needs, you are not stuck with the 3 to 5 curves sizes produced by the manufacturers of the different rails.  You can easily miss that tree (or other unmovable object) that your commissioner of land use (AKA: wife) will not allow to be removed.  In my case I have one 50 foot section that is running along a fence line and the rails needed to avoid several objects, a grape arbor, cinder block fence poses, so now the track has "s curves" that move the centerline by 5~6 inches that stretch 15 feet.
3.  If you are going for track power verses battery power, fewer joints means better electrical conductivity.
4.  After a curve the rail ends start to stagger which I like because the rail ends are now offset from each other.  
5.  Economy:  On a per inch basis the longer flex rails are somewhat cheaper than the sectional track.

Remember: this is a hobby for your enjoyment.  Pick what you like, do it the way you want, and enjoy.  The best recommendation I could give is to get a starter kit and go out and play in the dirt! 

Tom Trigg

  • Member since
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  • From: Virginia Beach
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Posted by tangerine-jack on Saturday, February 3, 2007 5:45 PM

Good for you!  Welcome to the real world of model railroading.  Once you get the taste of outdoor railroading you won't be going back to the puny, little toy N scale ever again so you might as well sell it all off and use the money for G trains.

On the subject of cost, well, how can I say it?   What is your budget?  Whatever your budget is, you can make a garden railroad fit it.   You can get into G for as little as $200 or come right out of the gate spending into the thousands.   I would think $6.50 a foot is a good number to budget with, but there is no real way of knowing how much the landscaping and other features will cost until you actually plan a railroad and start pricing.

My suggestion is to buy a starter set (LGB or Aristo-Craft is an excellent choice) and start running the train out in the yard.   While you are learning what works and what doesn't with the starter set, you can begin to plan the "empire".   Later you can reuse the entire starter set into the final railroad so you needn't fear wasting any money.

There are almost too many variables to even begin to cover here, but keep asking questions and searching this forum for past postings on topics of interest. 

 

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 3, 2007 6:27 PM

Toms idea of so much a foot is ok to start, but its only a base figure; for instance i have 10 sets of points (switches) cost A$2,100.00, an MTS set up A$1,000.00 some up to date, automation bits and pieces $800, locos and rolling stock A$20,000 need i go on.

As my wife who is a retired financial controller has said, the cost of this hobby is directly proportional to the depth of your pockets and if you are about to have a family, they probably are not very deep at all.

But all the best anyway.

Rgds ian

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 3, 2007 6:52 PM
 iandor wrote:
As my wife who is a retired financial controller has said, the cost of this hobby is directly proportional to the depth of your pockets and if you are about to have a family, they probably are not very deep at all.

But all the best anyway.

Rgds ian

Very deep Ian.......Zzz [zzz]

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Posted by TheJoat on Saturday, February 3, 2007 6:57 PM

When my daughter was 5, I converted from HO to large scale inside.   My HO railroad proved too delicate for even a dainty girl, but the large scale endured.   She's now teaching 3rd grade, and I've moved outside to be with my gardening wife.   (http://members.cox.net/thejoat/ and http://www.jbrr.com/index.html)

Costs are relative.   Don't try to build the largest empire from the start.  For instance, on my layout, my plan called for over 20 switches, and I quickly decided that I could not justify over $2100 dollars for them.  So, I built my own.  My average cost for the last batch of 15 was just under $25 per switch.    If that seems too much, then cut down the number of switches to start with.

My last box of 60' of code 250 flex track was $140.  I have not ballasted the track yet, but it's looking pretty good.

I scratch build most of my rolling stock and buildings.

 

Now, I did choose battery and radio remote control over track power.  I also modify my locomotives:

Do your research.   Look around.  Ask questions.  The point is, go for it!

Bruce
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    February 2005
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Posted by underworld on Sunday, February 4, 2007 5:32 PM

You can always start basic with what your budget will allow and add on. What everyone has posted here is good advice.

 

underworldBig Smile [:D]Big Smile [:D]Big Smile [:D]Big Smile [:D]Big Smile [:D]

currently on Tour with Sleeper Cell myspace.com/sleepercellrock Sleeper Cell is @ Checkers in Bowling Green Ohio 12/31/2009 come on out to the party!!! we will be shooting more video for MTVs The Making of a Metal Band
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 4, 2007 6:23 PM

William mate, did you reckon my pockets are deep or my thinking?

I also agree with starting small and keeping to budget but it is also good idea to nut out roughly what you wish to achieve overall, before you start. I did this but it changes with your experience and improved abilities. However an overview is a good thing and if you have to deviate from it, well the world wont come to an end if you do.

Rgds ian

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Posted by vsmith on Monday, February 5, 2007 10:33 AM
Hi Rob
-
Overall I have found that G has been cheaper than N or HO and a hellova lot cheaper than O.
While wider is generally better, dont let the 8 foot mafia buffalo you into thinking you have to have 8 foot diameter curves just to even get started, thats not so. I run 4 foot diameter, the smallest and I'm happy with what I run...and thats the real issue, what do you like and what are you thinking of running?
-
That and the area you have to lay track in should determine what you use curves wise.
If like me, you plan to run only small mining or logging locomotives like the LBG Porter and shorty cars then 4' dia is fine and you'll save alot of money.
-
If your thinking anything larger like more modern BB deisels like the GP9, U25, or F7 then while you can go as low as a 5' diameter what I is recommend is 6.5' diameter.
-
6.5 diameter will allow you to run all BB deisels like the Geep, U25, F7, etc. or any of Bachmann spectrum locos, everything from LGB will take a 4 ft dia but look much better on 6.5' dia.
-
If you are considering any larger CC diesel like an SD70 or Dash-9 or any large steam loco from Aristocraft like the Mikado or Mallet, then you'll have to go to the 8' diameter. As I said its really based on what your planning to run and if you have the room for those 8 foot curves.
It is true that the wider you can make your curves initially is better in the long run, if your space constricted, you do have alot of options for using the smaller diameter curves.
-
I recommend deciding what inevitably will be the largest engine you would like to run on it, and then plan accordingly.
-
ONE thing to remember, IF you use wider curves you MUST use wider radius turnouts that MATCH the minimum turning requirements of your largest engine. IOWs dont plan out 8' dia curves for your new Dash-9 and then go and install 4 foot dia turnouts, Wham! Instant derailment. So keep that in mind.
-
Otherwise I have found large scale to be a heck of a lot more fun than any of the smaller scale stuff.

   Have fun with your trains

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  • From: Nebraska City, NE
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Posted by Marty Cozad on Monday, February 5, 2007 4:23 PM

Hi Rob

I did not read all the above , but I have never paid more than #3 per ft. I watch for sales.

One key factor in largescale is the "entertainment value" After sticker shock you'll realize how much time can be spent entertaining your family and friends  in this hobby. Its year round. I have so much to do in winter . You will find challenges but as with any scale you will have to make or adapt things to work the way you want. I'm a very lazy person and so I work hard at making that possible.

So take your time and the RR will grow. 

Is it REAL? or Just 1:29 scale?

Long live Outdoor Model Railroading.

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Posted by markperr on Tuesday, February 6, 2007 12:15 PM

Okay, so the original question was how much does it cost for a 30x15 loop +/-, with a diesel loco and 5-10 cars, and a few sidings to spot cars.

Given that, here is what I figure as cost

I calculate about 120 feet of track in a 30x15 loop with three sidings, each 15 ft in length.  Cost @/$3.00/ft: $360.00

One diesel loco. Cost: $200-300 depending on what you want

Power supply/controller.  Cost: $200 +/-

Three switches at $50-$75ea. Cost: $150-$225

Five to ten cars at $50-$75/ea.  Cost:$500-$750

Ballasting material. Cost $100-$200

Total cost: $1500-$2000

This represents only an average.  It could be more or less.

Mark

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