I'm building several projects from the pullout plans of GRR and need to know this.
Ed S. says to put 2 coats of lacquer on the Maine coach and combine (and 1 coat on the Plymouth diesel). I don't have lacquer but I have shellac. WOuld that do the trick?
Also, once painted with several coats of paint, ed calls for a coat of varnish. Is the varnish to seal the paint, waterproof the paint, make it shiney or make it structurally more sturdy.
I didn't know whether to post the question here or in the pullout plans.
Thanks!
I think the shellac has a nicer bouquet, better taste and fuller body to it then lacquer, varnish, and enamel...
Sorry, couldn't resist. Please continue on...
The Home of Articulated Ugliness
FJ and G wrote: I'm building several projects from the pullout plans of GRR and need to know this.Ed S. says to put 2 coats of lacquer on the Maine coach and combine (and 1 coat on the Plymouth diesel). I don't have lacquer but I have shellac. WOuld that do the trick?Also, once painted with several coats of paint, ed calls for a coat of varnish. Is the varnish to seal the paint, waterproof the paint, make it shiney or make it structurally more sturdy.I didn't know whether to post the question here or in the pullout plans.Thanks!
The laquer is to seal the project, and can be used to color it as well if desired. Varnish is in fact to seal the paint and add a protective covering. However, if you dont' want to paint your model 3 times, use one of the modern synthetic paint systems available at your local big box hardware store and leave the shellac in the 1950's where it belongs.
BUT with that said, yes, shellac will work fine as a substitute.
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
Thank you for that Ralph, i had a vague idea and that crystalised it all.
Rgds Ian
I did a little bit of digging on the chemical make up of shellac, lacquer and alkyloid enamels to determine what properties, if any, would be more desirable for the average garden railroader. I discovered this in "Chromatographia" concerning shellac:
"Many organic materials release polar compounds containing-OH groups when subjected to pyrolysis. To improve GC detection of such polar compounds derivatisation with the silylating reagent hexamethyldisilazane (HMDS) can be achieved in situ while pyrolysing the sample (pyrolysis-silylation). In this study pyrolysis-silylation in combination with GC-MS was applied for the analysis of natural resins, utilised in artistic fields namely sandarac (Cupressaceae), Manila copal (Araucariaceae), colophony, Venice turpentine, Strasbourg turpentine (Pinaceae), dammar, mastic, and shellac. Pyrolysis-silylation of natural resins resulted in the formation of several silylated compounds characteristic of the different kinds of resins. The trimethylsilyl (TMS) ester of sandaracopimaric acid was a prominent compound released from sandarac. Pinaceae resins produced TMS esters of pimaric, isopimaric, methyl dehydroabietic and abietic acids. TMS esters of linear aliphatic and aromatic acids were generated from shellac. Distinctive though as yet unidentified silylated compounds were released from Manila copal and triterpenic resins. "
I didn't bother to research any further, it's late and I've got real work to do, but it sounds like to me that those shellac beetles leave an awful aftertaste.....
(oh yes, almost forgot, you shouldn't have any problems painting over shellac, it's a great primer/sealer!)
tangerine-jack wrote: I did a little bit of digging on the chemical make up of shellac, lacquer and alkyloid enamels to determine what properties, if any, would be more desirable for the average garden railroader. I discovered this in "Chromatographia" concerning shellac:"Many organic materials release polar compounds containing-OH groups when subjected to pyrolysis. To improve GC detection of such polar compounds derivatisation with the silylating reagent hexamethyldisilazane (HMDS) can be achieved in situ while pyrolysing the sample (pyrolysis-silylation). In this study pyrolysis-silylation in combination with GC-MS was applied for the analysis of natural resins, utilised in artistic fields namely sandarac (Cupressaceae), Manila copal (Araucariaceae), colophony, Venice turpentine, Strasbourg turpentine (Pinaceae), dammar, mastic, and shellac. Pyrolysis-silylation of natural resins resulted in the formation of several silylated compounds characteristic of the different kinds of resins. The trimethylsilyl (TMS) ester of sandaracopimaric acid was a prominent compound released from sandarac. Pinaceae resins produced TMS esters of pimaric, isopimaric, methyl dehydroabietic and abietic acids. TMS esters of linear aliphatic and aromatic acids were generated from shellac. Distinctive though as yet unidentified silylated compounds were released from Manila copal and triterpenic resins. " I didn't bother to research any further, it's late and I've got real work to do, but it sounds like to me that those shellac beetles leave an awful aftertaste..... (oh yes, almost forgot, you shouldn't have any problems painting over shellac, it's a great primer/sealer!)
Wow! Thanks for the tech info!!!
underworld
After I add some more detail to this here Plymouth, I'll experiment with the shellac and paint on this.
Ray I love your work, i am most impressed and i don't even care if it is accurate or not.
Our local club had a few members who purchased the cars of a local brewery. We asked the owner to autograph the cars with a paint pen which he very kindly did. The problem became how to seal that without causing it to run. As it was explained.
Enamel (and varnish) dry from the outside to inside, thus leaving more time for the thinners to work on the paint underneath; whereas Laquer dries from the inside out and should have less opportunity to make coatings underneath run!
Now, maybe some coatings scientist in our midst can give some insight on the various properties of the various coatings under discussion!
Capt Bob Johnson wrote: Our local club had a few members who purchased the cars of a local brewery. We asked the owner to autograph the cars with a paint pen which he very kindly did. The problem became how to seal that without causing it to run. As it was explained.Enamel (and varnish) dry from the outside to inside, thus leaving more time for the thinners to work on the paint underneath; whereas Laquer dries from the inside out and should have less opportunity to make coatings underneath run!Now, maybe some coatings scientist in our midst can give some insight on the various properties of the various coatings under discussion!
Bob, read my prior post. It should be clear as day!
Jack.
With all due respect; it isn't clear to me at all.
Now really I can't understand why you would ask a question like that then not understand a simple answer. This is an international forum and not everybody doesn't know what you think you don't know or should if you knew. Phooey.
To answer the question properly, and it is a good question to be asking, you would first have to know what is expected from the finish of the paint itself and to what purpose it's going to be used. ANY of the paint systems mentioned will do an outstanding job of coloring and protecting a model as used in the garden. The questions to be answered are:
1. Ease of application/ clean up
2. Availability
3. Fumes or other undesirable traits
4. Drying times
5. Compatibility with other paints or surfaces.
There are far too many variables in paint chemistry and adhesion to be able to make blanket statements as to what is "better". More detailed information is needed such as "I'm painting wood and the wife says NO to any odors" or "I've never painted plastic and I want a fool proof finish". Then we can look at the pros and cons of each paint system in context of a useful answer to the user. I've already addressed the issue of fumes and odors, so at least that piece is covered.
Details, man, details!
Jack you left out an important detail weather; if its raining you will have to wait until it clears,or if you are working outside you might get wet!
If working indoors will high ambient humidity harm the finish.
In any case the slightest problem with the weather in any direction, will be reason enough not to do it all or at least delay it indefinitely!
Right Ian! That is exactly the kind of thing that must be taken into consideration!
High humidity or other undesirable conditions don't necessarily negate one's ability to paint. There are paint formulations on the market that can easily be applied with excellent results in low temperatures or high humidity environments. That is why it is important to know the conditions, material surface and desired result before recommending a paint finish.
Interestingly enough, most model specific paints, such as Floquill and Testors have already been formulated to give great results with a minimum of user skill over a wide variety of environmental conditions. The true bottom line to it all is that the paint companies have already addressed the technical problems and market a good product. It is up to us to decide which paint or formulation of paint we want to use, knowing the conditions in which we will be painting.
Here's an idea- READ THE LABEL ON THE CONTAINER OF PAINT!!!!
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