Powering my new Garden Railway

[Anonymous]

Just today, I finished laying the perimeter of my garden railway.  I used LGB Track, a 1 amp analog 20VDC transformer and power dial.  Unfortunately there is a 2 or 3% grade at times (which I know can cause havoc).  I have both the LGB "Stainz" loco and LGB F7A (I love that diesel engine).  The "Stainz" moves along ok along the perimeter - but you can definitely see it struggle on the grade with just 3 cars in tow.  Heck, the F7A won't even budge on the incline with no cars in tow.

 

I have deducted that I need a new power set-up, and I have little idea on which set-up I should get.  LGB warns against using non LGB powering brands - but they are expensive and there is little details given on LGB's website regarding its powering products.  I eventually will have switch tracks and the F7B unit - - - so I guess "MTS" is in my future.  

 

Any guidance or advice you can share will be greatly appreciated.   

-Matt 

[rsch1964]

Matt,

     You have okay voltage it's the amps you need. A starting point is 1.5 amps, mind you this is a starting point. 1.5 amps will push a small engine and a few cars around but that is about it. Look for something starting around 4 amps; MRC, MTS and others will have what you're looking for. Hey you could always look into battery power and radio control. - Bob

[Anonymous]

Thanks!

[RR Redneck]

I'd recommend Bridgewerks. All the transformer you will ever need.

[kstrong]

... LGB warns against using non LGB powering brands - but they are expensive and there is little details given on LGB's website regarding its powering products.

For the most part, that's a myth. LGB's power supplies output a very smooth, filtered DC signal that's no different from the filtered, smooth DC signal out put from many other high-end power supplies. What LGB's warning relates to is power supplies that control trains via unfiltered DC (some low-end units) or PWC (pulse-width modulation control). Both of these types of throttles control speed by changing the height or duration of voltage pulses (spikes). The higher or longer these pulses are, the faster the train goes. Some of the on-board electronics in various locomotives aren't terribly fond of these spikes or pulses, and won't work as programmed. It's not just LGB locos that have these issues, but it's also not all LGB locos (or any other brand) that have issues.

I did a comparison of power supplies and throttles for the June 2002 issue of GR, which should still be available as a back issue or .pdf download. While there have been a few new throttles introduced in the past 4 years, the ones tested are still the key players in the game. There's not one in the whole lot that I wouldn't recommend, though I'd stay away from Crest's (formerly Aristo) #55401 controller because it only outputs a pulse-width signal. Their radio-controlled "Train Engineer" controller offers a choice between linear and PWC, so if I were to go with their stuff, that's the route I'd take. (And, you can walk around with your trains--an added bonus.)

If you want to use LGB's proprietary DCC electronics, then you're married to their MTS system and the expenses that come with it.

Later,

K

[Anonymous]

Very helpful - thank you. 

 

What about voltage?  Would a controller giving an output of a higher voltage (say 24vdc versus 20vdc) make the train go faster?  So far, I have heard amps discussed more often than voltage.  I know very little about electronics - it would be my guess that higher voltage will yeild greater speed and power.  

 

Thanks again. 

[Anonymous]

I disagree with much of what has ben said here, by just about everybody.

1) A transformer is just that, you put AC in and you get AC out, it will not run anything but DCC or locos that are designed to run off AC; which i haven't come across yet.

2) If you are going to go to DCC, do so early on and all you will need is a transformer with most DCC systems i have seen.

3) A power supply is a device that supplies power, which may or may not be DC but usually is but it is always more than just a transformer.

4) As far as power supplies are concerned, i cannot compare LGB with other train stuff but compared with commercila power supplies, they are pretty awful.

5) Some critical areas are, a) full load to no load regulation, which i found on the LGB power supplies i tested to be very bad, ie the less the better and these were about 40 %. b) ripple, i also found thius to be nearly as high as possible, ie virtually no filtering at all.

6) This doesn't mean that they are no good for operating model trains; in this direction i have had no trouble.

Rgds Ian

[kstrong]

Yes, a higher voltage will give you faster speeds. That assumes that the power supply has ample power. With a beefy enough power supply, though, you'll likely never max out the voltage, which is fine. Most of our trains run at prototypical speeds at voltages less than their maximum rated voltage (typically 24 volts).

What's the most important aspect of a power supply is the total power, typically expressed in "volt/amps." (Technically, the same as a "watt," but we just call it something different.) This is a measure of the total power available from the unit. A 20 volt/amp unit can supply 20 volts at one amp, or one volt at 20 amps (or 10 volts at 2 amps, etc.) An 80 volt/amp unit can supply 20 volts at 4 amps, availing your train of 4 times the power. Most of our trains--under normal circumstances--draw around 3/4 amps per motor, plus some for lights and sound, etc. So, a pair of double-headed diesels with lights and sound can draw as much as 5 amps. You can see how an ample power supply comes in handy. If your trains are drawing 5 amps, and you've got a 20 volt/amp power supply, then your maximum voltage available to the train is a mere 4 volts! That's not going to move fast, if at all.

Later,

K

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much!  I now have a good introduction on power supplies and transformers.  No wonder my twin motor F7 Diesel wasn't burning up the tracks with my 20vdc/1amp power configuration! 

[underworld]

Or you could just go nuclear! ...

underworld

[hoofe116]

Here's a rule of thumb and some formulas dredged from my ancient memory.

 1. Amps equal current. Volts equal well, pressure. Okay so far? Think of yourself as standing in a creek with a fast current. The moving water rushing against your britches is amps, (Kinetic energy). The 'weight' of water that's rushing down hill can be thought of as 'pressure', that is volts. Confused yet? Volts mean pressure, amps mean current or work being done. You are vastly under-current with a one amp power supply. Think along the lines of at least ten amps. For starters.

2) formula for figuring power consumption: P=IE, where P is power in watts, I is current in amps, and E is 'electrical potential' in volts. Really confused now? All you need is HS algerbra 1 and you're okay. That means, if your engine is labelled (I don't know how they're labelled, I can't afford one yet) say, '3 amps', that means your power supply better be able to output at LEAST 3 amps. (There're electrical losses--called resistance, but let's not go there) that figure in.

As soon as I can find an affordable, small, used engine along the lines of a Porter, or even an HLW Mack, I'll buy it. Then I'll be smarter.

 Les Whitaker

[Anonymous]

Well Gentlemen we done it we have solved half the worlds problems the other half isn't our concern.

Rgds Ian

[Anonymous]

Well, I chose the MRC "Power G 10" power system for my set-up. For $150, it seems like a great value and so far I having nothing but praise for the system.

http://www.modelrectifier.com/images/products/600/AG990a.jpg

Now my only concern is how to store it. I was originally planning to have a separate transformer and controller which would allow me to plug the transformer inside while keeping the controller outside in the elements. Right now, I simply detach it and bring it in the house when not in use. I have heard of using a water cooler to store the transformer - - does anybody have any other ideas?

Thanks again for all of your help.

[Anonymous]

Matt;

 I have just been reading your original post and will throw a spanner in the works, your problem may not have anything to do with power?

If you are running a Stainz on a 1 amp power supply of adequate voltage, it should go anywhere certainly only pulling two waggons.

What makes you think you have a 2 % gradient, check it out scientifically and come back to the forum. If you can't work it out just give us the numbers.

Rgds Ian