Question???

[Z For Me]

Hello.
I am a 46 year old man who has been involved with HO and N for around 35 years. I have subscribed to MR for a good part of those 35 years and look forward to each months magazine. I have started looking very hard at building a Garden Railroad but I have a couple of quck questions for you pros.
1-I am disabled and have a hard time with bending and heavy work. Would planning lets say a small outdoor Garden Railroad require a lot of heavy work?
2-Just how much cost is involved when undertaking a Garden Railroad?
Land is not a issue as I live on 2.5 acres but it is the cost due to living on a tight income.
Great site and any replies would be appreciated.
Mark

[FJ and G]

You can build a raised layout. If you have some $$$ save away, you could hire someone to haul in rubble and build a sort of brick or block wall to hold it all in. Alternately, you could have redwood benchwork done and have the layout atop that. Sort of like this...

http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=39718

[tangerine-jack]

Welcome to the real world of model railroading![#welcome]

It's tough to build a garden railroad when you are disabled and on a tight budget, but not impossible. The best suggestion I can think of is to contact your local Garden RR club and become a member. Then you can ask the members to help you with the harder parts of constructing the railroad.

For the tight budget you will have to be creative. You can build your own structures from scrap wood garnered from fruit crates or similar, you can use wild flowers and native plants to landscape with (lower cost and no maintenance) and you can build your own rolling stock and cruise EBay and flea markets for the “deal”. DO NOT skimp on a power supply or your track work, money spent here is an investment, not a waste. Ridge Road Station in NY has the lowest prices around for track, but you can Google around and comparative shop online. You can build your own track as well from home cut ties and aluminum strips- build sections on the work bench and transfer to the railroad as required.

Read the forum and ask lots of questions! It takes imagination and creativity, not money, to build a garden RR.

Good luck and happy railroading!
[#welcome]

[Anonymous]

I agree a raised line is a good idea tho harder to get a prototypical effect . i have seen posts set in the ground linked with timber to give a trackbed at the desired height . If you can get scrap timber ie pallets it would saye money . Alternatively concrete blocks set in the ground on mortar can be economical as they are fairly cheap . both methods involve some labour tho.The main cost is track , I favour aristocraft for strength and ease of use . Having used LGB and Peco it is superior to both . Track is cheaper if bought in bulk and I source most of mine from Ebay . I would suggest it as a source for all your requirements .If you have any existing solid feature such as a path or low wall consider running the track on or slightly raised from it to reduce groundwork. It will be well worth the effort of construction , I am on my third garden layout and it is a real pleasure seeing it come to completion.

[grandpopswalt]

I agree that a raised roadbed is very, very important for someone with a physical disability as well as most chronologically challenged folks. I’ve compared the relative cost of building raised “platforms” versus building earth and stone raised roadbed and my conclusion is that the platforms are much easier and more cost-effective. In the past I’ve built and will soon be rebuilding my RR on 3 foot high by 4 to 6 foot wide tables 8 to 10 feet long connected lengthwise. They’re built out of pressure treated lumber frames with galvanized corrugated metal roof panel tops and are covered with soil. The average cost is about $9 per foot not including the track. If the open bench work bothers you, the fascia material will add a little to the cost. It’s more expensive and time consuming than ground level but it sure beats crawling around on your hands and knees trying to get things done.

Walt

[John Busby]

Hi Z For Me
[#welcome]
First off inspite of popular belief a garden railway is no more expencive than a decent HO layout.
Its all in the way you achieve the desired result.
If you buy everything it will cost an arm and a leg, if however like many on the forum you make and bash some of it the cost can come down in great big amounts.
Don't short cut on locomotives, track civil engineering or power suplies
everthing else can be whatever.
In some areas the cost is a bit blurred as is it RR or garden expence.
In your case it would seem from your comments that raised track is a must
Or as I call it track on a stick there are several ways of building raised track
all of which will require some heavy work at some stage and some more than others.
I think some assistance in that area would be a good idea.
What do you call small? you have more room to get carried away with than most of us.
regards John

[ttrigg]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Z For Me

Hello.
1- Would planning lets say a small outdoor Garden Railroad require a lot of heavy work?
2-Just how much cost is involved when undertaking a Garden Railroad?

Land is not a issue as I live on 2.5 acres but it is the cost due to living on a tight income.

Mark:

Welcome to the site.

Like anything else in life planning a garden railroad has absolutely no expense involved. Building one, on the other hand, can be very espensive. I guestimate the cost of my GRR to be about ~$6.50 per foot of track. The estimate includes the cost of track, switches, rail clamps, bridges and abutments, sub-roadbed crushed rock, roadbed ballast crushed rock, garden fabric (helps cut down on unwanted plat growth through the rails) wiring (track power and switches). I'm sure an elevated road would cost a little less, but I figure $6.50 a foot is a good planning figure. Not all construction must be done at once. In my case there are five distinct "phases" of construction planned over a ten to twelve year plan.

In your planning process, I would recommend that you plan for the ultimate goal, and then section it down into sectional phases of construction. In each phase have all the switches (turnouts) installed as "stub sidings" so that they can easily be expanded upon. In my own case the original "phase" of construction was the most difficult as it included a tunnel on a curve under a waterfall. That was due to land constraints, (and I would NOT recommend anyone else do it, but if you have to do it, it can be done.) All of the turnouts were in place for each of the expansion phases. Each phase in turn has gone a little more easy that the others.

Even though this hobby can be very expensive, it is easily managed by taking small bites at a time. Have your ultimate goal in mind for each phase of construction and each new purchase.

[Z For Me]

First of all, thank all of you for the prompt replies and the in the manner in which all replies are written. I had almost given up on boards due to the idiots that post responces that are only slams and other non needed garbage. So far not on this site! It seems we have a dedicated and friendly bunch of guys and gals who enjoy our great hobby no matter which scale or how you enjoy our misunderstood hobby. There have been times when I have mentioned to a non hobbyist the basics of model railroading and they almost always say "oh, you set up on the floor some toy trains like my son does once in a while". I have tried to explain to some that there are millions of us out there and around the world who take the hobby from being toys to a level where some spend a lot of cash on our hobby and most of these folks who really are born to run trains are true artists.
If anyone ever finds themselves traveling through Ely, NV. and want the thrill of your life, well, Ely has always been a small mountain town that has relied upon mining to keep this town alive. Ely has had it's share of ups and downs in between the shut downs and up times that goes along with mining and just recently (two years ago) the very large open pit copper mine has once again kicked into full production and is forcasting a 10-15 year run so the good times are back! There is even talk of re-opening a older gold mine due to the price of gold and it's continued increase in value. They are even planning a coal firing plant that is to begin construction next year.
Okay, back to what I was meant to speak about. Good old Ely has from the late 1800s two fully operating steam locos that were truly used for many years in this area in the mining field. They offer rides year round and dinner rides and the rest of the tourist stuff but what makes this short line that runs on it's original line will allow you to rent, yes I said to RENT either one of their old steamers or one of their older deisals (sp?), I should say newer deisals that also were used in mining operations.
The last time I inquired about renting and being in full control of a huge part of America's mining history it was layed out in differant options such as just being in the wheel house and all the way up to being the engineer in full control running the line from the Ely yard all the way to the mine, about six miles each way. You can also opt for their other line that used to haul the product to the old mill which is about the same amount in distantance.
I don't have their link at this time but I will locate it and pass it on for your enjoyment. If I remember correctly, the full deal runs around $700.00 or maybe more but that cost does include classroom training and in cab training by men who know this steamer and should be a thrill of a lifetime!
Yes unfortunatly (sp?) I was severly injured in my low spine back in 98 and it is the nerve damage that reflects throughout my entire body which ruins my and many, many others who have had their low spines fused with six (in my case) titainium cages so please never any I'm sorry or poor guy" as while I do appreciate the heartfelt compassion, I have been burned out on the Poor guy statements.
Okay, when I state money concerns might be an issue and while it can be, it is not. I could, at this time invest around 5K on getting started and from the great advice given from all of you, even if I end up only owning a loco or two, well that will put a always needed smile on my face, thanks!.
Here is one of the links....http://nevadanorthernrailway.net/
It is called the "Ghost train" because rumor has it that way back when the company had plans to put this part of history to sleep but the crews who ran this baby had other ideas and each day that the bosses came around the crews would move the "Ghost train" to one of the many hiding spots along the line so no one could find it. So thanks to these men we have not only one old steamer in service for us to enjoy but two! It is worth even just taking pics of it in the yard or to follow it as it steams away on the line! I swear that the first time I saw and rode this beast I was speechless! You can even become a volenteer (sp?) and work in all aspects from the train house to perform maintanance and once you show your dedication you will find yourself inside the cab feeding the stove and breathing everything that makes our history so sweet. Have a look at the site and enjoy and remember that is you are comimg from the North on highway 93 or from the west on either 6 or 50, stop in when you pass through the tiny town of Ely, NV and have a look. We live about ten miles from the yard and we hear the steam whitsle blow all of the time and are proud that we live in a town that took the needed steps to keep all of Ely's trains running! Let me know when you are here and maybe we could go see the babies and maybe even take a ride if time permits. My fingers are going numb (a normal part of my dang condition) so I again am sorry for rambling on and will end this shortly.
What I am sure that many of us hold is as dream to build (I have no idea what scale it would be, maybe 1/4 scale?) a riding type of backyard steam layout but where my wife and I reside on 2.5 acres and at 6600 feet is the short summers and the extreme, very cold and looooong winters and in fact, snow on the 4th of July is not something new up here in NE NV about 300 miles NE of Lost Wages where we only visit every three months to see my specialist MD as Vegas is not a nice place like it used to be. Great place to visit but after living there for six years and my wife and I prior to living Vegas have always lived in the boonies and on our own land so Vegas was a shock. The drug and gang issue were getting out of hand and this was seven years ago and all we could hear was the country yelling at us to come back home. It was getting so bad, in my opinion, I took the concealed firearms carry course and kept a pistol close by. I am not a paranoid man and both my wife and I grew up around all forms of firearms so carrying on was not a issue. We found some land up in Ely and sold our home in Vegas and got out of dodge quick and have been happy ever since.
Again, thanks for the links and great advice and I will start putting things in order and maybe I can pull this great form of enjoyment in motion.
Take care, Mark up in Ely, NV. USA No more long e-mails in the future I swear!

[Ray Dunakin]

Hi Mark! I love Ely, it's one of the best small towns I've ever visited. Having that beautiful steam railroad there is a huge plus, of course. Every summer I spend my vacation camping and exploring in central Nevada and usually visit Ely. In fact I'm hoping to get to Ely again this August.

[Z For Me]

Hey Ray and glad to hear that someone knows about Ely and the huge benefits that NV has to offer.
I hope that no one that lives here agrees with what I am about to say;
Yes Ely has it's good and great things to offer but quite honestly and in my humble opinion, Ely could do much better when it comes to the downtown area.Either sell these run down buildings or sell them at a loss. We are in a moving forward boomtown that will continue to grow. Over the past three years our city leaders have messed up our budget to a point where we are almost or nearing bankruptcy. Instead of following their chain of command when it came to monies spent they or some chose to do things on their own. To make this short we are now feeling the effects with a 22% property tax increase and many other taxes that could have completey avoided. You may have noticed that Ely's and White Pine County's gas prices are always very steep-taxes. Downtown needs to either tough and sell off or flatten most of the older and run down eye soars as these dumps reflect on our town directly.
Back to our beauty, the only problem in our county is that almost all water flows underground to the Great Basin so we have few lakes and streams. I am sure that you are aware of Cave Lake and most important, Cummins Lake along 93 South that locals fi***hat pond the most. Camping is limited but remember that you can camp just about anywhere that suits your needs at zero cost to you. Just be aware of which hunting season we may be in and if decide to camp out on BLM or Forest land, well you may be in the line of fire so maybe if I were you I would tape a square portion of orange on the side of your tent. When you are heading to Cave Lake and just after you cross the bridge, keep a close eye on the right for a small camping area, it is almost always full but the draw to this spot is that is sits right next to the run off stream from Cave Lake and even has some shade. I promied to make my next note short so if you want some of the better out of towners to play and relax, drop me a e-mail ay [e-mail] and I will steer you to the finest areas.
Talk soon and hop to hear from you-Mark

[John Busby]

Hi Z For Me
Sounds to me like your biggest issuie is going to be the track bed
or more specificaly geting the suport posts in I would sugest looking into
a ladder type made from plastic wood or some light weight strong material.
Using the same aproach you would have to use eating an elephant one bite at a time.
You know your own limitations and came to us for usefull answers
which I hope we where able to give you.
I am not sure why it is but the garden railway people seem to be a better class of people more willing to assist be friendly and throw an extra steak and hamburger on the BBQ for you if your around at the right time.
So what thoughts have you had as to what you would like on the railway
bearing in mind its in the real world so needs to be a bit simpler than
some of the wonderous empires that can be found in peoples basements.
regards John

[devils]

If you build the line raised on blocks or steel you can back fill once you've saved enough to put in a better looking wall around it. Fill with dirt slowly to build up the level at your leisure rather than trying to do it all at once, you could invite people round to operate and help with works trains at the same time!
Initial cost will be track and roadbed only, spread the cost of buildings and plants over the next few years. Make temporary buildings from card that can be used when you operate.
Good luck
Paul

[Chompers]

If you Build it Waisst High and with wide curves, it will make it much easier to maintain and when you get "burned" by the live steam bug, you will easaly be able to run any live steam engine out there.