Small scale garden railroads?

[wairoa]

Hi all I usually post over in the other MR forums but I have a question for you. Is there any reason why HO guage trains could not be used out doors? I have heard that the motors in some HO scale motors have too much plastic and therefore would break too easily outside? I have always thought it would be awesome to have a long mainline going from inside to the outdoors, around the yard and back.

I have seen a couple of articles on British OO guage modellers with garden layouts.

well thanks for reading and all the best. Craig.

[toenailridgesl]

Craig, the short answer is "No!"
Major hassle is the track which isn't UV stable, then the problem with dust, dirt, spiders & other bugs etc. What is a bit of nuisance in1:20.3 scale is a major headache in 1:87. Sticks, twigs, leaves, dirt, etc etc etc. are all full 1:1 scale & what is a pain in 5/8" to the foot is a nightmare in 20% of that.
If you want to spend most of your time on maintenance go for it but if you want an easy life HO outside is NOT the way to go.

[cabbage]

Well I have seen UK 'N' scale (1:148) on outdoor display at PECORAMA. The track had obviously been down there for some years. HO/OO is definate for garden work -I know of a couple of such layouts. 'O' scale (7mm) is another.

However all of the users will be the first to admit that the track needs careful care...

16mm scale on 32mm track (AKA SM32) is I think the smallest gauge that is really useable externally. But don't let us stop you making it work!!!

regards

ralph

[Tom The Brat]

Anything's possible! Practical might be a different matter.

[wairoa]

Thanks for the input fullas. Maintenance does seem like it could be a chore. If I was do do it I would probably use Peco code 100, as few switches as possible and maybe some portable structures. Would also build it above ground. It would be an extension of my indoor layout.
I'll keep you all informed if I go ahead with this.

[Train 284]

You can, but like listed above, it will give you a lot more problems as the track is not UV protected and it is lighter than G scale, so it will move a lot and even small twigs, and things can easily derail an HO locomotive.

But hey thats just my 2 cents!

[ttrigg]

Craig:

I do not care what anyone says, YES IT CAN BE DONE! I reference my own escapade into using Z scale as a garden railroad within my garden railroad.

Http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46847

OTOH! WHY!!! The maintenance pains do not make some things practical. Dead rose petals can cause a major derailment. Snail slime will "glue" a car in place. Little pieces snag the dogs fur and get lost.

Like I have said many times, Garden Railroading is supposed to be fun. If you want to have fun with the little stuff, then go for it. Please keep the expenditures down at the start so that when (that is, when, not "if") you decide to go back inside you've not lost a bunch of money.

I did the "Z scale" GRR in the "G scale" GRR simply because so many people here said it could not be done. Yes it can be done. No, it is not practical.

Been there, done that, not going there again!

Thank You

Have a good day!

If all else fails, remember to have fun!

[Anonymous]

One note if you do plan make sure and weather the ties with UV resistant paint, that should help keep them from being destroyed by the sun.

[devils]

PECO track IS UV RESISTANT no paint required.
My father has had HO in the garden for the past 20 years and the track is all original PECO. The switches / points do discolour a bit and need the contacts on the switch rails cleaning about once a year. Commercial Point motors are unreliable as they aren't weather proof leave them manual.
Bond all the track joints with a wire and it'll be reliable.
Locos are fine as long as you don't run them in the wet and clean off all the twigs and bugs first with a soft brush, a slug makes a real mess of your loco.
The track bed is building bricks with preservative treated boards on top and gravel covered roofing felt glued to it and tacked onto the sides. keeps the wet out of the boards and we've only replaced a couple of boards in 20 years on a 75 foot long dogbone layout.
So it's possible but you have to look after it more than the larger scales that's all.
I'll take some pictures and try and post them tomorrow if I get a chance.

[skeenapac]

Craig, by lifting it out of the dirt, it can very well be done. My father ran OO-HO outside 30 years ago by running along fence supports, elevated right-of-ways and on a concrete patio, avoiding those little problems, like twigs and slugs. He used Peco track and had no trouble. It was outside for more than seven years and gave him a great deal of enjoyment and satisfaction. He built a "closet' in the back of the garage to keep rolling stock inside and then ran oit out through the garage walls into the garden. I'd post a picture, but they have not yet been scanned.[:D]

[underworld]

I've seen every scale all the way down through N in some of the British magazines.

underworld

aka The Violet

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

I'ld avoid engines with exposed gears at the bottom, any grain of sand can cause serious damage. But yes, it can be done.

[gvdobler]

I think the idea of an outdoor HO "sounds" good, but I don't think HO and G railroaders think the same. It's kind of like Country music vs Pop music. We tend to like a little of the "other" but mostly we listen to our own.

G gaugers (I belong to a large club) mostly just want to run trains, not operate yards. Therefore, not as much bending down. HO gaugers tend to want to operate yards and making up and tearing down trains, with a little mainline running in between.

Most people think of an outdoor layout to eliminate the problem of no room inside. We all dream of long mainline runs, but the problem I see would be the layout height. Indoor HO is generally set up to be close to eye level for a variety of reasons, mainly comfort in working on and operating the layout. Imagine a 3-4 hour operating session in HO where everyone is on their knees the whole time.

The available equipment is the least of the problems of running smaller gauges outdoors.

[FJ and G]

Question for you 16mm modelers who popped out of the woodwork. [:D]

Do you try to enclose exposed gears or how do you otherwise protect them?

I'm using Williams locos (similar to Lionel), with exposed metal gears that hang just above the ballast.

The steps I'm taking to protect the gears and motor are:

1. Very light dab of white lithium grease

2. brushing the rails and ballast to ensure there are no loose pieces of grit that can get sucked up (ballast is held down with concrete bonding adhesive but pieces of ballast and other debris still manage to work loose)

(btw, this question is sort of hidden in the post so if there are no replies I'll create a post for the question).

Thanks. (we rarely get advice or tips for smaller-scale garden RRs)

[cabbage]

I have not 'popped up' I have been building 16mm scale models for over 10 years now!

The type of gears that are normally used are worm and spur. They are run in with Lithium Moly grease as they are normally 'pocan' a nylon glass composite. And no -they are not shielded from the elements. The only problem I have with them is often my laziness -they can get pieces of grass wrapped around them -they still work -but the smell of green grass prevails until it is all cleaned off.

How small do you think 16mm scale models ARE!?!?! My collection of locos range from 118cm to 46cm long. 16mm scale @ 19.1:1 is BIGGER than F scale @ 20.3:1. The track gauge may be smaller but the locos and rolling stock definately aren't.

What people who think of 16mm normally expect are little dinky Welsh quarry engines and rugga tippers. Anyone looking at the 2 foot gauge engines in captivity on both the WHR and FFR has to think again!!!

regards

ralph

Post Scriptumn: For those curious click the home page icon -this will take you the 16mm NGM web ring. You will find both myself and Matthew on it. Have a good look around -maybe you will like what you see!

[FJ and G]

Sorry Ralph, I realize those are very large trains on narrow gauge or industrial track. I think 16 mm is some of the best stuff around! Hats off!

my goal is to keep the gears lubricated but not too much so dirt doesn't attract.

[Anonymous]

I'm still in my first year of 16mm garden railwaying but I do understand concerns with exposed gears. My line has the track 'floating' on a bed of gravel with ballasting. In Japan we go from below zero up to 40 degrees celcius in July/August so the track moves quite a lot. No real problem though, I just spend a little time adjusting and re-ballasting - which is in itself relaxing. This does mean that the bottom of engines are open to whatever happens to be lying on the track.

So far I have three battery locos and a railcar, all with gears exposed. With a good application of grease to all moving parts and a brief inspection after running I haven't had any problems so far. Having scratch built everything I think I have perhaps a strong desire to protect them from the garden - part of the fun of running trains where they should be.

Ralph speaks the truth about 16mm, our trains are not small or easily breakable. I think we all tend to find a happy compromise between taking care of our 'pride and joys' and nor worry too much about wear and tear.

All the best, Matthew [bow]

[cabbage]

Hmmm....

Well I had a look through my books and this is the largest 2 foot narrow gauge loco that I can find. It is a port engine (used for towing ships) used on the White Sea Canal. I don't actually have a picture of it -but O.S.Nock is normally a reliable source!!!

0-6-2 + 2-4-2-4-2 + 2-6-0

At 16mm scale the locomotive would be a little over 2 metres long!!!

What people seem to forget is that most colonial railways were at the 2 foot and 2 foot 6 inch gauges -heavy duty railways were metre and 3 foot 6 inch. This lead to a lot of articulated locomotives to provide power and they needed flexibility to take sharp turns on lightly laid track.

I grew up on a colonial railway system with 2 foot gauge Garratts -there was nothing industrial or cobbled together about them!!!

regards

ralph

[Tommy0218]

Hi all I usually post over in the other MR forums but I have a question for you. Is there any reason why HO guage trains could not be used out doors? I have heard that the motors in some HO scale motors have too much plastic and therefore would break too easily outside? I have always thought it would be awesome to have a long mainline going from inside to the outdoors, around the yard and back.

I have seen a couple of articles on British OO guage modellers with garden layouts.

well thanks for reading and all the best. Craig.

Hi Craig,

  I think HO or possibly even On30 would be a more ideal scale to go with in terms if you wanted more exact scale miles and realism - that is 1 foot in HO would give a much different perspective than 1 foot in G.  I think a name such as Roco, Marklin or even Fleischmann in terms of the motors holding up to the outdoor humidity and erratic weather behavior may be another way to go if you are concerned with the locomotive quality and internal gearing. 

You can always use a makeshift canopy to protect the rail from changing weather such as rainfall or UV protection. I once had the chance to see a outdoor layout, not too long ago - all constructed in HO scale loco's and accessories which extended about 100 feet out from the backyard of a house. The layout is elevated at about 5' 10" off the ground with the steepest grade at about 2% maximum. This gives the perspective of actual scale miles and is very unique in the way it is designed. I have a passion for collecting locomotives, however I once did professional layouts some time ago for office buildings and individuals who wanted realistic layouts and I think HO is one of the most popular scales and versatile enough to use in any environment.

[Anonymous]

Why would anyone want to do such a thing?

 

Ian

[Tommy0218]

Why would anyone want to do such a thing?

 

Ian

Why not ???  This hobby is about doing anything you want.

[Tom The Brat]

I wonder about that too, Ian. But then, it's their railroad, whatever they want to do is fine!

[Anonymous]

Thought I'd Add my thoughts

I model on30 outdoors, and love it, okay its pouring down right now but I can still build stock and buildings inside. I just dont have the room inside for a layout, so the back garden was the only place left. My layout is on a shelf along the fence so it is similar in construction to an indoor layout (different materials) And yes peco code 100 is UV resistant according to Peco. Id ad some pictures if I could find some form of attachment icon on the toolbar for the message, till then pop over to my website

www.rjroriginals.co.uk/rjr_branch_line.htm

John Teal

RJR Branch Line.

 

 

 

[Tom The Brat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqOjYAxUG5Q&mode=user&search=

 

[Anonymous]

Great fun !!

 

John Teal

RJR Branch Line

[Anonymous]

Ps how do you get a picture under your name on the left ??

[Anonymous]

I too have given thought of running HO in the garden. Aside from the obvious problems of debris, animals, slugs, etc, the one that bothers me the most is scale. A blade of grass can be taller than your rolling stock. In G scale, objects like grass, flowers and small trees can complement the railway, but HO is too small for that to happen. A small tree can scale out to 500 feet and more.

[Anonymous]

Yes,it can be done very well. I had a G gage layout(not a garden layout) but a yard layout. I would not plan a railroad on the ground. My two and a half year layout in my yard is 34" high on a platform in   HO gage.At nite a tarp covers the entire layout,my track is atlas and the condition is as good as new.

If what you plan to do,is run it along a fence it is a ideal situation.My layout is 30' long by 4' wide.

GO FOR IT, and i never enjoyed it, as much as i do now.

OUTSIDER