Standardize on what coupler?

[Anonymous]

I'm two years into my outdoors garden ry, with mixed LGB, Aristo and Bachmann rolling stock; trying to standardize with LGB steam power. What is the best coupler to standardize with? Kadee, Aristo, LGB or Bachmann?

[Tom The Brat]

Um... Which do you have the most of? I have mostly Aristo equipment, so I put Aristo on everything. I might someday change to the KayDee #1 type, just 'cause it suits 1:29th a little better.

[tangerine-jack]

Whichever you like to standardize with is good. I prefer Kadees with the steel drop pin cut off. Each type has it's ups and downs, so the decision really is based on which one you like to operate with the most. I don't like the LGB type, they hold together very well (almost bullet proof), too well for my tastes as I can never seem to get them unhooked without lifting the rolling stock off the track. Some on this forum would swear by them, others swear at them. B'mann and Aristo are both solid couplers that have held up well over the years, so the choice is yours.

[Anonymous]

Thanks. I read a poll in another forum and it seemed almost overwhelmingly Kadee....i.e. 60%

[kstrong]

Kadee has the distinct advantage of being virtually universally mountable, regardless of whether you opt for body-mounted or truck mounted couplers. They also specialize mounts for various large scale locomotives on the market. That makes converting over to them even easier. Because the others don't have self-contained coupler pockets, you've got to be a bit creative with mounting them on various rolling stock. That's not to say it's impossible, but it is an added hurdle.

I've been using Kadees for over 20 years, and have never (yes, that's never) had a coupler come uncoupled because of the mechanics of the coupler. A twig derailing a car, or a glued-on mounting failure, perhaps, but never because the couplers "just uncoupled." You won't get that reliability with Aristo, USATrains, Bachmann, or LGB's knuckle couplers.

The trade-off with the Kadees is (a) that unsightly wire pin that hangs down, and (b) the inability to uncouple the couplers via a lift bar, like the prototype. As others have stated, the metal pin is virtually useless in large scale. I've never heard of anyone using Kadee's automatic/magnetic uncoupling in the garden. Just clip it off. As for the lack of "prototypical" uncoupling, I'll take the trade between that and "unwanted" uncoupling any day of the week.

Later,

K

[Anonymous]

kSTRONG I disagree with the reliablity issue as far as Aristo goes. while I don't dought
your story I have talked to others that don't agree with KDs As far as universal mount ings I have mounted to Bachmann ,USA, LBG,and of corse Aristo. I also have very few
uncoupling issues all tho I cant say never .Some uncouplings are not necessary related to the couplers. I started useing Aristo because of cost issues $7.95 for KDS $5.00 a pair for Aristo I have at the momet 227 cars add it up.

GDANCER Read the thread Couplers you will seeat least some people agree
KStrong This is just what works for me and I really don't have any Issue with KDs
if they work for you I think that's great


Ed

[skeenapac]

This is like every topic in Garden Railroading, lots of good opinions!
Well, here's another one. As a balance between looks, serviceability and price, I think you don't go wrong by using Aristo couplers. Most of my experience with them (6 years so far) has been positive and the only bad one I had, (yes, the darn thing kept uncoupling) came as original equipment on an Aristo boxcar of very ancient lineage.
For me, they have worked well, looked good and not broken the bank. If I had big bucks to convert to something else, would I? Probably not. But, hey, as the line says, your results may differ.

[vsmith]

I'm switching all my stuff to Ozark link and pin couplers

[Anonymous]

I like the bachmans

[Capt Bob Johnson]

This is a subject that should not exist! There should be an industry wide standard for couplers and coupler height. All the other scales and or guages have it, so why can't we???

Is Mr. LGB so much in fear that you might buy a car from Mr Bachmann, MTH , USA, or Aristo that he refuses to have compatable realistic couplers? Does Aristo so fear that you might want to run one of thier engines with the competitors cars that they have a propriatary interest in being different?

Well, I have news for them all! They are keeping aftermarket people like Kadee in business!

They're all sitting there hoping that they can outlast the others and be the only one left in the market; well, it ain't gonna happen and they would be better served to widen the appeal of thier product by setting standards of compatability and adhering to them!

And that folks is the day's sermon as delivered from the platform of the observation car at this whistle stop!

[DannyS]

As the majority of my locomotives are Bachmann, but with 60 pieces of rolling stock from almost every manufacturer, I have standardised on the Bachmann Knuckle Coupler, by far the easiest to retrofit to all other manufacturers rolling stock, they will fit Aristocraft,USA Trains, LGB etc. Plus the Aristocraft Classic line is fitted with Delton Couplings which will mate with Bachmann perfectly, but not with the normal Aristocraft line! My most recent locomotive, the LGB Sumpter Valley Mallet was a breeze to fit with Bachmann Knuckles on the Tender, straight swap over, correct height and all.
Buy your Bachmann Knuckle Couplers in the 12 pack for economy.
Danny Sheehan in Oz.

[kstrong]

Can we get an "AMEN!" for the Captain?

Railfan... it's inherent in the design of the Aristo/USA/Bachmann/AMS couplers that they can be uncoupled by pushing up from underneath on a trip pin. That's neither a good nor a bad thing, it's simply how they operate. It also means that twigs, stones, leaves, and other things that go "bump" in the garden will invariably trip open the couplers. Also, long trains put a lot of stress on the forwardmost couplers, causing them to occasionally pop open. I've seen it plenty of times at train shows and open houses. (That's why bread ties are almost universal in any club's display toolbox.)

Can these other brands work reliably? Absolutely. I've seen them work well more often than I've seen them fail. But, they do have inherent physical pitfalls which hinder their ability to be 100% reliable.

Later,

K

[FJ and G]

I'm thinking about switching my toy train couplers to Kadees in the future. Are they easy to open by hand when doing switching moves?

[John Busby]

Well just to be the odd one out
I am going to be standardising with a couple of exeptions on center buffer and three link chain as often used by the 16mm crowd.
for no other reason than it works for me.
I dont think the manufacturers will ever standardise couplings well not in my life time.
But how about we try and get them to standardize coupling hight and mounting lug dimentions so that any brand of coupling will fit any brand of locomotive or rolling stock, and work without having to trim uncoupling
pins.
regards John

[Puckdropper]

Keven, even the big railroads don't have 100% reliability. That's why you see things such as mid-train helpers and why everyone on the job knows how to change a knuckle.

I completely agree with Capt. Bob. Small scale indoor railroading wouldn't exist without the standardizations we have today. We had that ugly, hideous, and annoying X2F or horn-hook coupler for years (and still have it) before people started switching over to the knuckle couplers like KD makes. That's two basic types of couplers, not 5.

[Anonymous]

K strong Again i disagree with your coment about Arstro because if you look at the bottom of a aristo coupler there is a little web that helps prevent the coupler sliding
up the rest do not have this I will agree with the Capt how ever . It seems that
you have your view point and I have mine and thats good What works for each of us is what was asked What works for you may not work for me and vicesversa.
Thanks for the banter
I love a good debate
Ed

[Marty Cozad]

I think your all wrong!!!!![B)]

Dream land Trains makes the best coupler, just close your eyes and never a problem.[;)] Works on everything every time.[^]

[Tom The Brat]

If you want aristo couplers to couple to things at other heights, just remove that little web.

At Ric Golding's last fall, I found that my aristo couplers would couple quite handily to his KayDees with the web in place.

[kstrong]

Puck... True, there are failures on the prototype, but if they could have 100% reliability, they would.

Ed... Again, I'm not saying they aren't reliable, just that they have inherent weaknesses in their design that keep them from attaining the reliability I've had with Kadees. They may be 90% reliable, and that is quite adequate for many.

The problem isn't the coupler sliding up or down, it's the lever arm on the bottom that releases the knuckle. That's prone to being bumped up by debris, thus opening the coupler and separating the train. Again, it's not just Aristo--it's USA, LGB, AMS, Bachmann--any coupler that is activated by pushing up a lever from below.

All couplers will slide up and down relative to one another to at least some degree. Even the prototype railroads have designed specialized couplers to mitigate this for certain types of cars, especially tank cars and passenger cars. In the model world, this problem is exacerbated by truck-mounted couplers. The arm onto which the coupler is mounted has some degree of flexibility, thus allowing the couplers on joining cars to raise and lower relative to one another based on physical forces of tension and other stresses. Kadees are equally prone to failures due to what's often referred to as "tongue droop" as any other brand. But that failure is rooted in the mount, not the coupler itself. Certainly, webs and bumps such as those on Aristo and USA couplers will help mitigate this in the model world, the same way similar features do on the prototypes. In that regard, Aristo and USA have an advantage over Kadee. No argument from me on that front. I personally use body-mounted couplers, so this is a non-issue for me. So long as they're all mounted to the same height and the track is relatively even, they won't come apart.

David... Kadees are easy to open via two methods: first, there's the flat-bladed screwdriver method, where a 1/4" wide (or thereabouts) screwdriver is inserted between the knuckles and twisted. This opens the couplers and separates the cars. The second method is the ever-reliable "lift and separate" method, where you simply lift one car up so the couplers clear, then set it back down on the track. I find I use this method a small majority of the time. (Even when I was in HO, too.) It's not as cool as "pulling the pin" as the prototype would, but it's effective. Coupling them is simply a matter of pushing the two cars together. There's no need to make sure one (or both) knuckles are open. Again, a bit unprototypic, but every coupler has its inherent compromises.

Later,

K

[Anonymous]

Gee, Guys! Didn't know I would provoke so much controversy out there. I assumed that there was a consensus. Obviously, the only consensus is around the Captain's suggestion that there should be standardization. But, at this point, where there are so many committed to one of five different couplers, there would be an entrenched sizeable "special interest" in each. Sounds to me like there nev er will be a standard!

[Anonymous]

Ooops! (Hit the wrong key and posted before I was finished.) Thanks, guys, for giving me some great input. Sounds like Aristo or Kadee --Ken, as a Newbie, I like your style-- either, would be a satisfactory standard. Many thanks to everyone.

[Marty Cozad]

One tiny point. If cost is an issue, when you buy Kadee, you can always resale the new factory couplers for a $1 each to help save $$ someone else who likes them. This cuts your conversion price down.
Plus I cut off those unsighty wires.

[pimanjc]

I am slowly converting to Kadees. First there were Bachmanns, then all Aristo's, then a switch to H&L. I have had problems with the H&Ls riding up over each other causing derails if I have to decellerate [stop] while on a steep downgrade. Since the Aristo's and Kadees are somewhat compatable, I will be running a combination of the two until I can afford all Kadees. The Kadees and H&Ls are the only couplers that seem to allow my FA/FB-1 and F3-A/Bs, pulling cars, negotiate both ends of a four ft. siding.
JimC.

[Anonymous]

Marty I bought several used cars with fixed KDS I removed them and put
in my junk box Don't know what number. Are you interested? I don't think they are
from Dreamland tho.

Ed