Need a bridge idea

[tangerine-jack]

I am going to be expanding my pond over the next month or so and I need a few ideas or maybe a link to where I can get some plans. The pond will be extended under the foot bridge and the section of track next to it. I would estimate the bridge needing to be around 30” in length, plus whatever for a footing. The pond at this point will be a total of 24” deep with slope for sides etc.

I don’t want the rail bridge to be anything very fancy and overshadow the foot bridge, just solid and reliable. I also don’t want it to go unnoticed, so simply putting down a piece of 2X4 isn’t an option either. Any thoughts? What about materials? I don’t really want to use wood, even cedar has a tendency to rot in my area, maybe aluminum? How do I construct a footer-brick, gravel?

I will also be adding in an elevated trolley line (using recycled brick from the residing on my house[;)]) and that will need one or two bridges to go over the existing track depending on if I decide to have a tunnel at one of the crossings. Do you think a kit would be time effective, or would I get more satisfaction per dollar by building it myself?

Any input would be great.

[John Busby]

Hi TJ
Not sure what issuie of GR it was in but now about a plate girder bridge its a couple of lumps of whatever size timber
Wiith the plate work attached to the sides the track sits on the top so don't forget
the internal and external check rails or talk to a friend with a welder and make a steel bridge..
For the tram crossing bridges I would think the Lehmann toy train bridge or the Aristocraft covered bridge would take care of two of them or maybe one of those "A" framed bridges whatever the call those.
You could cross on the level as well just for something different and put a simple set of signals on the tram line think switch stand target painted red with a white ring around it and of course propper signals on the main line and phone cabin and tram stop by the tram track
regards John

[tangerine-jack]

Good, that's a start. I'm concerned with corrosion of steel because of the high humidity and the proximity of the ocean. I have nice welding equipment, I guess I could use steel, but how to make it corrosion proof in this environment? I would think marine epoxy paint. It's an option.

I really don't like the idea of a level tram/trolley crossing because my RR is so flat already. I wanted to give a vertical and crowded feel to my industrial section, plus use up that ugly pile of bricks I have in my yard. But it's a good idea with some merit, I will consider it................


[oX)]

[FJ and G]

"Any input would be great."

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OK, you asked for it.

Since I run 20th Century santa fe, I'm toying with the idea of deck girder and concrete with very minimal wood except for low trestle work that's prototypical.

I'm going to be running some experiments in next couple months on bridge building.

I'm thinking to build some wood forms and fill with rebar and concrete for the pilings with a large screw jutting up and set in the concrete.

Then, I'd attach thick, long strips of wood to the screws in each piling. I would then cover the wood with "steel" girders.

For the plate girders, I'm going to try banging a copper pipe flat (I've done this before). For the smaller "I" beam portions of the plate, I'll hammer out a 12-gauge copper wire flat and snip pieces out to solder to the flat copper pipe portion, using propane torch and "sweating" method (placing wet sand on areas already soldered.

I don't know if I've offered a good word picture but eventually I hope to complete a section and post photos.

The other option is to use aluminum and glue sections together or rivet them.

I'll likely try several methods before settling on one I like.

Or, I may just decide to do what 90% of you do and just put in wood trestlework.

For now, I'm patiently awaiting my shipment of rails so that I can start laying track.

Also, I'm peeved b/c my Dec 05 Garden RR mag hasn't arrived. Do U think I should call Kalmbach or just wait a few days?

[FJ and G]

oh, one more thing.

For the steel trim work (I-beam) you might also try soldering some HO rail to the plating.

[smcgill]

Marty!!!

[tangerine-jack]

Ah, good idea about using the HO scale rail for beams!

I don't think it's necesary to make miniature versions of full sized bridge abutments, I was thinking gravel base for drainage and a brick. I'm not going to carry significant weight on the bridge, so there is no need to overconstruct.

I'm not waiting a few months for experiments, I figure that's already been done by forum members and they can let me know what worked and what didn't. I want to break ground this weekend. The pond will take only a day, maybe a day and a half, and then I'll be looking at building a bridge in the coming week.

Copper sounds like a good try, but I've got good welding equipment and prefer, if I have to, to use steel for lower cost and the fact I can do it myself. I just don't know if it's practical. I might trim in copper for visual, I still have a large roll of copper roof flashing.

MARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????

[oX)]

[FJ and G]

Jack,

Be sure to post pictures.

Since you have welding equipment, you are way ahead of the curve.

My understanding is that steel structures are not curved for railroads so you will end up with a series of angles if you want that prototypical look.

Copper plumbing pipe is not that expensive; esp. compared with the sheets of copper sold in hobby shops. But if you use steel, that's even better.

Personally, I'd still plant the steel into the ground with concrete (like fencing). Doesn't hurt to overbuild, even tho you're in a hurry.

MARTY!!!!!!!!!????????

[FJ and G]

Jack,

I just reread your thoughts and you've given me a great idea.

Instead of concrete forms, I'll simply sink a large diameter copper plumbing tube into the ground and solder the bridgework to that.

Thanks, man.

[tangerine-jack]

You could fill a PVC pipe with concrete and put a stainless steel bolt in it, similar to your original idea. I think that would be more durable than copper stuck into Virginia soil and allow the bridge to be removed for maintenance or replacement.

I can also bend the steel for the bridge as well as weld it. Remember, I do motorcycle and car restorations as my other hobby.

Photos are a matter of course, no need to ask! I haven't decided yet to post as I go, or just wait 'till it's all done. Might be interesting to see it evolve online?


[oX)]

[FJ and G]

Thanks, Jack.

And to boot, the PVC looks more like concrete. I'd likely go with the kind made for outside.

I watch American Chopper quite a bit. Used to drive a Kawasaki 750 in Okinawa back in early 80s but wrecked it.

[powlee]

Jack

Don`t know if you remember my aluminium bridge from last year. Bit larger than you need but......

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30800

all the best
Ian P

[Anonymous]

Make it out of steel.Tight welds and let nature get on with it.The rust will be free and make it look real.
And Jack,many thanks for the 'Lucas'e-mail.Kept me chuckling for hours.
I need to chat with you at some stage about Harley charging systems (or pick your friends brains! )
When have the whimsey things got to be in?
I don't tend to stay on this forum much anymore due to the intrusion of the O gauge guys.Post counts are all they are concerned with.

Sorry,I had to edit due to the swearing police!

[FJ and G]

Ian P,

Yes, that bridge is definitely sweet.

Troy,

That natural rust weathering is definitely a cool factor. Just don't let the OSHA inspectors visit (that's the U.S.A. safety and health "police").

Sorry you feel that way about O scalers invading your garden space. I don't have many to talk to on the O scale forums who go outside so I need a place to compare notes about the outdoors. Glad you're keeping track of post counts b/c I'm not.

[Anonymous]

Jack,
You say you have a pile of brick in your yard? An idea, form a curve over the water with plywood or something similar. Mix up a little concrete and use those bricks to build an arch bridge. Start from the bottom of the arch with the bricks laid flat to the arch. Slabber on some cemet and set the next brick on top. Smoo***he next brick down in the cement till the side to the arch is square with the arch. Repeat on both sides till the arch is complete. At the top of the arch, you could grind one brick to shape to form a keystone. Chip off some bricks to fit the arched brick to build back to the bank. Fill the cavity with gravel or small rocks till it's almost full and then cap level with cement. Make the railings out of track rails.
The Overseas Railroad, built by Henry Flagler around 1900, used this type of construction for the bridges through the Florida Keys to Key West. He just kept adding arches till he had crossed from one island to the next. Many of his bridges still stand today.

[Capt Bob Johnson]

I thought he'd need a bridge with a compass, steering wheel and telegraph!

TJ, weld it & let it rust. It will look real!

Like the man said, "Marty" ---- How would Cozad do it?

[tangerine-jack]

Troy, glad you enjoyed the Lucas jab, it's only funny 'cause it's true! Email me your bike problem and I'll see what I can do. Please don't leave the forum because of a few people, I just ignore them when they don't have anything constructive to say, but once in a while I pick up a little knowledge. The whimsey date is the 12th, I'm ready mooohahahah moooohahaha!!!!

Capt turk- That's a great idea! I'll see if I have enough bricks to do both. It will be something new for me, so I might try it out. I'm a lot of things, except a mason. Very Roman of you to bring that up.

Capt Bob- "I thought he'd need a bridge with a compass, steering wheel and telegraph!"
really, I've got a whole bag of "shhh" with your name on it!

Bob and Dave- I was thinking the natural rust would be a way cool factor. I found some I beams at work today, they look about the right size for a solid platform. I'll post a few photos when I get the chance.

Powlee- where u been buddy??? That's a good link, I might do something very close to that in steel. Thanks!

Thanks everybody for your ideas, I feel the creativity starting to flow.





[oX)]

[Anonymous]

Stay away from the purple pen.
It is the source of all things purple.
OK.Don't knock it.
I could be right.
Purple is a really nast colour [:)]
Cheers Jack.
I'll let the beast
sleep for a few days before I start him.
Could be a starter motor winding problem or a charging problem.
I keep a battery optimiser on him when he;s stored.

[tangerine-jack]

Ok, this is where I'm at right now. I found these beams at work, very solid.


Using the latest high tech precision redneck measuring device, I make each beam 36" in length.


Relying on my Triumph restoration experience, I use a classic old world British metal cutting technique. This should only be done to the music of the Buzzcocks or The Clash.



No, really it's good to be in G scale. No gurlie-man tools here.


Oh, how did that get in here? Oops!


Again, no wussy little glues used here, no Sir! Manly tools for a manly hobby. Mig it and it will stick.........forever.


Done for now.


I have to decide on an upper structure, most likely simple truss design. Keep the ideas coming, I still have two more to go.

(what can I say, more doing and less talking!)





[oX)]

[ttrigg]

Fabricate or Kit?

I was going to say, 'Depends on tools you have and the skills you have.' Looks to me as though you have both the tools and skills.

Go for it!

[John Busby]

Hi TJ
How about the grey paint they paint an LCM or LCT with for the steel bridge.
That should have a good service life if you can get some.
Dont forget to stencil you RR's name on the bridge
Regards John

[FJ and G]

TJ,

Great progress.

I was looking at some photos of Marc Horovitz's previous O scale garden railroad (dual gauge) and although he didn't build it this way, one of his bridges sort of inspired a new idea for steel girder that would be very quick as well as cost-effective.

Same idea using PVC for vertical uprights support; then wood frame for the bridge.

And here's the latest twist. Sheath the wood with drywall corner framing (I think that's what it is. It's steel or aluminum comes in 8 ft sections used for finishing corners of drywall).

You'd need 4 of those frames per piece of wood. You could make it with 2 but the girders would be a bit skinny.

Drywall screws could hold it into place using the provided holes. The edging of the frames forms a natural I-beam ridge.

The wood would need to be ripped to exact dimensions so there are no gaps or overlaps between the upper and lower framing on both sides.

I've got an entire box of this stuff left over from when I framed my basement.

-----------

BTW, I was pleased to see that Marc Horovitz modeled O outdoors and I'm not sure but I think he may have been one of the founding members of Garden RR mag.

[FJ and G]

more ideas comin' atchya...

Did a recon of the neighborhood and pulled this aluminum stud from dumpster (and threw it back after taking picture). Shows front & backside. Wood could go in middle.

No shortage of girder materials!

[tangerine-jack]

Current update:

I took some more of the angle iron and made side supports



Here they are welded onto the central support beam. Whatever paint the US Army used on these is nearly impervious to the heat of MIG welding. Notice in this and other photos a complete lack of paint scorching around the welds, only mild discoloration near the heat source. If I can get this stuff to paint the bridge with, I'll be golden.


A shot of the underside support.


Shot of the wife cutting pizza with a pair of scissors. Bizarre.


This is a close up of the deck; very strong overlap welding will support around 300lbs.


A perspective shot for general size comparison.


I plan on covering the deck with wood. Now on to building an upper structure and pediment......................


[oX)]