Gn30, Gn24, Gn15 and other narrowguage G PHOTOS

[DieCastoms]

I know that Gn30 is simply G trains on O track, and it never dawned on me to think of using HO track for Gn15. I saw pictures once of a complete running G scale layout on a one squarefoot platform and it was in Gn30 I believe.

Could someone post some pictures or links to pictures of G narrowgauge models? I would especially like to see examples of Gn15 as I think it must look stupid as hell, no offense, please proove me wrong.

I would like to model as close as I can to 24 inch narrowgauge such as what was used in Bridgeton and Saca, and Rangely Lakes in Maine, an subsequently, Edaville RailRoad theme park in S.Carver Massachusettes, (where me father and I worked for a few years).

Also, this is probably an over-asked question, but would someone help me put together a list of the possible permutations of equipment vs. track for narrow gauge applications?

Thanks all!!

Blase, from DC.

[Anonymous]

Gn2 would be the designation for 2 foot in G. Most common is Gn3 which is a 1:20.3 scale model running on 45mm lgb/aristocraft track. Gn15 is running on HO gauge track with appropriate ties, I'm unsure as to the scale of the model it's self. From what I read it is a 1:13 model running on 45 mm track. Your locomotive would have to be scratch built on a manufactures chassis to make the boiler cab etc to 1:13 scale.

I typed "Gn2 trains" in the yahoo search engine and came up with this thread on mylargescale.com

http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=29069&whichpage=1

I hope this helps

[vsmith]

[:)]Here we go, once more into the scale breech my friends, once more!

Actually...G scale should refer only to LGB one meter guage scale trains on 45mm track yeilding a scale ratio of 1/22.5

3 foot gauge on 45mm tracks is designated Fn3 scale, F scale of 1/20.3, n3 refering to 3 foot narrow guage track in that scale. F standard gauge is 63mm track, with only a small circle of rabid modelers working in it.

As for Gn30 or Gn15 I can only assume that they are modeling at a scale of 1/22.5 and not 1/20.3, now they very well may be and are simply using the G scale designetion out of old habit[:)]


Now for modeling 24" gauge unless you want to custom build everything i would suggest doing what we all did in HOn30, namely use N gauge track which was closer to 30" to represent 24" track. In large scale that would easiest be done using 32mm O scale track in lieu of correct 24" gauge. The primary advantage is being able to use commercially available drive trains, trucks, couplers, etc.I have seen one model of a Maine Forney kitbashed in large scale using an O gauge drivetrain and track, it looked really good. Beleive me, you DONT want to scratch build every single truck, drivetrain, and track section to a rivet counting correct 24" gauge UNLESS your a rabid modeling fanatic.[;)]

Matt your partially their, Gn15 IS Gscale operating on HO guage track, since it IS G scale, it would still be 1/22.5 scale ment to represent 15" gauge industriual trains in G scale

1:13 scale or more commonly referred to here as 7/8" scale is using 45mm track to represent 2 foot gauge industrail or field railroads. The scale jump from G scale to 7/8" scale is tremendous! If your modeling Maine 2 footers for example, a car that might be 18" long in G, will be OVER 3 feet long in 7/8" !!![:D]

Lots of links, go to the Sticky "Links" topic at the top of the general discussion page, scroll down theres a bunch of Gn15 and 7/8" scale websites there

I'll add my personal favorite... www.carendt.com

[Anonymous]

Yea! what Vic said![:I]

[kstrong]

Vic,

One correction - F standard gauge is 70 mm. (4' 8.5" x 15mm/ft)

Later,

K

[DieCastoms]

Hi, it's me again...

THANK YOU for all your answers! I do very much appreciate them. I am, however still a little confused.

My father wants to build cars based on "G" scale (such as Bachmann Big Haulers for example) plans such as found in the patterns in "Garden Railways" and the like, but build them narrow guage. He did not specify what guage he wants to model, so I wanted to find out what guages readily available track combined with readily available "G" scale trains and plans would yeild. From your responses so far, I gather that I was correct in assuming G scale on O 'guage' would yeild 30 inch narrow guage models, and G scale on HO guage would yeild 15 inge narrow guage models.

I do know however that he wishes to stay with 2 rail o track much to my dispair. My favorite train set is 3 rail. HOw difficult would it be to convert it? I think that the axles ARE insulated, for some reason. Can I just add a brush or pickup to the insulated side and run on two rails?

Anyways, I know I ramble. Thanks,
Blaise, from DC.

[Anonymous]

LGB's G scale, on 45 mm track "IS" narrow gauge. It represents 1 meter gauge, which is the commonest narrow gauge in Europe. I'm not sure, but i believe that 36" gauge was the most common narrow gauge in the USA. 2' gauge was mostly in the Northeast, in the area of Maine.

Standard gauge = 4' 8 1/2" between the rail heads.
Meter gauge = 39.37" between the rail heads.

[scottychaos]

Blaise,
the reason that there is so much confusion is because the terms "G-scale" and "G-gauge" are usually used as generic terms meaning "anything that runs on 45mm track"..
this is bad, incorrect, and very unhelpful.

as others have said, the use of the letter "G" when talking about model trains should ONLY be used to refer to the scale of 1/22.5, nothing else.
but sadly, it is used for much more than 1/22.5.


a "scale name" should tell you both the scale of the models, and the track gauge,
some "scale names" that work well, and are unambigious are:

HO scale - 1/87 scale trains running on 16.5mm gauge rails (for standard gauge.)

HOn3 - also "HO scale"..the scale is the same, 1/87, but the gauge is now 10.5mm, to represent 3' gauge prototypes. the "HO" tells us its "HO scale"..the "n" stands for "narrow gauge" and the "3" stands for "3-foot gauge prototypes"

HOn2 - still HO scale, 1/87, now the gauge of the model track is a mere 7mm.
to represent 2-foot gauge prototypes in HO scale.

S scale - 1/64 scale models, standard gauge prototypes, 22.4mm track.

Sn2 - a common scale for modeling Maine 2-footers.
still "S-scale", still 1/64, but rails are now 9.5mm apart, to represent 2-foot prototypes in S scale.

On30 - "O-scale", 1/48 scale, narrow gauge, 30" prototype track gauge.
model track is supposed to be 15.8mm..but hey! HO scale track is very close to that, so On30 modelers just use HO scale track..

etc etc.
(this list is no where near complete..its just an example)
notice the one thing these scales have in common..the scale is constant, the gauge changes..(just like in real life.)

HO
HOn3
HOn2

all are HO scale, all are 1/87.
the gauge of the model track gets narrower as you go from HO to HOn3 to HOn2..
this is all good, this is all logical.

our "G-scale" trains dont do this!! [}:)][xx(][V]
(actually..they should be called "Large scale"..)

In the other scales, the scale stays the same, and the gauge changes..
(just like the prototype)
in the Large scale world, (generally) the gauge stays the same, and the scale changes!! Large Scale trains are the only trains that do this..

45mm rail is the standard for "Large Scale"
multiple scales run on this 45mm track.
1/13.7 scale - 2' gauge on 45mm track.
1/20.3 scale - 3' gauge on 45mm track.
1/22.5 scale - meter gauge on 45mm track.
1/32 scale - standard gauge on 45mm track.

those are all of the correct scale/gauge proportion.
then we have scales that are "close, but not exact"
1/29 scale, standard gauge on 45mm track (sort-of.)
1/24 scale, 3-foot gauge on 45mm track (sort-of)
those 2 scale have issues..the guage of the model track doesent quite fit the scale.

SO! after all this rambling..there is essentially only one choice for modeling Maine 2-footers in "Large Scale", and that is 7/8n2 scale, which means "7/8th of an inch = one foot, narrow gauge, 2-foot prototypes)
that is 2-foot trains, in 1/13.7 scale, running on 45mm track.
BIG HUGE models! [:D]
a very cool scale..im a huge fan. (even though I have only built one model in that scale so far)

I have developed a scale I am calling "29n2 scale", which means "1/29 scale models, narrow gauge, 2-foot gauge"..these models ae the same scale as my 1/29 scale trains, on a proper gauge of 22mm.

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/29n2

So..the key here is understanding the relationship between scale and gauge..
they arent the same thing.
scale is "how big the model is compared to the prototype" and gauge is "distance between the rails"..for both the prototype and the model rails.

technically "Gn2" should be 1/22.5 scale.
I believe everyone who models in Gn2 actually models in 1/24 scale.
technically it should probably be re-named "24n2 scale"

"G-gauge" is correct only if referring to 45mm track, it says nothing about scale.

"G-scale", when referring to a SCALE, should only be used in reference to 1/22.5 scale..
(European meter gauge on 45 mm track)
but this is not widely accepted in the hobby..its not "official"..hence much confusion.

1/13.7
1/20.3
1/22.5
1/24
1/29
1/32
all *could* be referred to as "G scale"..and often are..this is bad.

we need some clarification in his hobby! [:0]
so far, only "F-scale" is making good progress at disintangling itself from the mire..
in the meantine, if we just use "Large Scale" as a generic term, everyone will understand you mean "any trains that can be found inside Garden Railways magazine..regardless of scale..those big trains."

*whew*! [:p]

Scot

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DieCastoms

Hi, it's me again...

THANK YOU for all your answers! I do very much appreciate them. I am, however still a little confused.

My father wants to build cars based on "G" scale (such as Bachmann Big Haulers for example) plans such as found in the patterns in "Garden Railways" and the like, but build them narrow guage. He did not specify what guage he wants to model, so I wanted to find out what guages readily available track combined with readily available "G" scale trains and plans would yeild. From your responses so far, I gather that I was correct in assuming G scale on O 'guage' would yeild 30 inch narrow guage models, and G scale on HO guage would yeild 15 inge narrow guage models.

I do know however that he wishes to stay with 2 rail o track much to my dispair. My favorite train set is 3 rail. HOw difficult would it be to convert it? I think that the axles ARE insulated, for some reason. Can I just add a brush or pickup to the insulated side and run on two rails?

Anyways, I know I ramble. Thanks,
Blaise, from DC.

You can't, at least not without completely replacing the motors and power pickups, 3 rail is AC current, 2 rail is DC current. Sorry.

[scottychaos]

GN15 was the one I was thinking of that does 1/24 scale.
Thats 15" gauge, in 1/24 scale, using HO scale track.
an easy scale to get into, because HO scale locomotive mechanisms can be used, then 1/24 scale models are built on top of them.

http://www.gn15.info/

im not sure what scale GN2 modelers use then..
must be 1/20.3, because 2-foot trains in 1/20.3 scale, you would need 30mm track.
which is close to O-scale 32mm track.
so shouldnt that be called Fn2 scale then?? [}:)]

oh! I forgot about 1/19 scale!
a common scale in Europe.
that is TRUE 2-foot modeling on 32mm track.
also known as "16mm scale"
"GN2" might not really exist then..
"16mm scale" is actual 2-foot modeling on 32mm track.
in 1/19 scale.

http://c.webring.com/hub?ring=16mmgardenrailw1


Scot

[John Busby]

Hi scottychaos
And what about 1:19 on 32mm track for the Main two footers??
You can buy track some limited US bits and pieces allready
If you want UK trains there is plenty in thia scal avalable.[:D]
so 7/8 isnt the only viable scale for building a two foot gauge railway
indoors or out
regards John

[Anonymous]

I model in Gn15 & 7/8n2. Check out my web page
http://dawgstrainhouse.com/
There is alot of neat stuff there.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Gn15er

I model in Gn15 & 7/8n2. Check out my web page
http://dawgstrainhouse.com/
There is alot of neat stuff there.

Nice stuff there! [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi scottychaos
And what about 1:19 on 32mm track for the Main two footers??
You can buy track some limited US bits and pieces allready
If you want UK trains there is plenty in thia scal avalable.[:D]
so 7/8 isnt the only viable scale for building a two foot gauge railway
indoors or out
regards John

John, don't underestimate Scot, he's pioneering the way for 1:29n2 scale to have the representation of dual gauge.

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/29n2/

[ndaily]

I think Scot did a good job with that rather -necessarily- long explanation. I would like to add that the model gauges themselves have their own designations:

#1 Gauge (track): 45mm (~1.75 inch)
#2 Gauge (track): 2 inch (no longer support by anyone that I know of)
#3 Gauge (track): 2-1/2 inch (~63.5mm) --used to model Standard Gauge at 1:22.5 Scale

It's worth noting that Kadee uses the phrase "#1 Scale" to refer to their 1:32 Scale products (for modeling Standard Gauge on #1 Gauge track).

I believe a few companies are trying to support an "F Gauge" which, I believe, would be around 71mm (~2-13/16 inch) (oops, I see that K has already addressed this one as 70mm.)

http://www.nmra.org/standards/pdf/S-1_2.pdf
This document from the (US) NMRA formalizes that:
"F" (scale) refers to 1:20.32
(#)"1" (scale) refers to 1:32
"G" (scale) isn't listed but I'd like to hope that most people mean 1:22.5
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, now to start my own bizarre thread[xx(]
I was inspired by the article "Large Scale in a tiny space" (Garden Railways, Aug.2004) (which, by the way, refers to Gn15 as 1:22.5 Scale on HO Gauge track), being stuck in an apartment (and assuming that the property managers dont' want me tearing up their land-scaping).[}:)] I decided that I wanted to be somewhat puritanical about modeling in "F Scale" (1:20.3), discovered (wow, my syntax seems to be getting worse) that "S Gauge" 7/8 inch track is almost perfectly "Fn18",
18 inch narrow gauge at 1:20.3 Scale. I'm not trying to model any prototype, I'm just making it up as I go.

Using NWSL's S Gauge wheelsets, I scratch built two cars to test with. Now, here's my problem. I'm trying to handlay track with the tightest turning radius that the cars can manage (apartment sized). My first two attempts have been failures, the first produced flange-bind, the second the gauge became too wide, so the wheels fell between the rails. (Of course the real problem could be my inexperience with handlaying track[:I])

The wheelbase of the cars is 44mm (~1-3/4 inch), the longest that will be allowed. I imagine theirs some esoteric math formula for calculating min. radius, but I figured I'd ask the folks with the experience... any recommended minimum radius?

thanks,
Nathan

[Anonymous]

Nathan, I believe "F" scale is one of the faster growing scales! Accucraft's AMS division has a full line minus passenger cars. Bachman just introduced a 1:20.3 boxcar to go along with their spectrum line of 1:20.3 locos. Iron creek shops just started making standard and narrow gauge tie strips for use with llagas creek track. Bachmann also annouced their building of a K-27!

It's growing, just not as fast as some of us like[;)]

[monkeyman2]

http://www.freewebs.com/bcanda/tuckahoesteamandgas.htm
If anyone looking for some Narrow guage prototypes or idea's.... Some nice pics if I do say so my self. [:D]
Also, Heres a Map:
http://www.tuckahoesteam.org/images/2002_show/map/image002.gif
That would make a Very intersting Model!

[Phil Hemingway]

Wow, thanks for the link Monkeyman, great photos, some modelling potencial there especially the little Plymouths...

[monkeyman2]

Yeah, If anyone would like some other angles of the engines, rolling stock etc, lettme know, and ill get some pics on my next trip. [:D]

[Anonymous]

http://forum.gn15.info
has proto pics and modelers pics

[Anonymous]

http://www.gn15.info/index.php?c=prototype

some proto plans thats on the http://www.gn15.info site