Crossover Hobbyist (HO scaler to Garden RR's)

[Anonymous]

I'm currently designing/building a 17x21' HO scale layout in my upstairs bonus room, and while at the LHS the other day I saw some Bachmann Big Haulers and remembered my wife really wants a big train under the christmas tree this year. Now I've heard all the warnings about not using Bachmann track outdoors, and I rarely see Bachmann stuff referenced as 'good quality' stuff... so I had a few questions for a possible newbie crossover modeler....

1) What's the best (most cost effecient) way of delving into the world of outdoor garden RR's? Train set or piece by piece?

2) I really like present day equipment, which is readily available in HO. What's the availability like of modern locos and rolling stock in G scale?

3) Radio Controlled, battery controlled, DCC or what? What's the best for outdoor use?

4) Compared to HO scale, how much more expensive is G scale as a hobby? (for instance, 2 times more expensive, 10 times, etc). In other words, is this a retirement hobby or something a modeler on a budget can do?

Most of the stuff I've seen is fairly pricey as far as my budget is concerned. Locos for over $300 (for a cheap one), cars run about $50-$100 each, track pretty pricey as well. Not to mention the cost of ballasting, plants, rocks, etc to go around the railroad. Am I looking in the wrong places, or is this a rich (or retired) man's hobby? lol

Thanks guys!

[John Busby]

Hi jshrade
To go through your points
1 With a set just like you would in HO as the components are cheaper as a set than they would be individualy.

2 Aristocraft is the answer as is USA trains and some LGB

3 no comment what suits the owner the best as all that you have mentioned is avalable as is analogue contol ( std two rail DC)

4 Costs the same you just spend it in bigger chunks at a time.
any one can have a large scale railway it all depends on.
How much you are willing to do your self, remember that HO twenty car train you have is around about the same length as a four car G scale train.
Balast is not that expencive but remember you buy it by the tonne.
I would be wary about including garden costs in the equation.
My take on it is i am landscaping the garden I would spend it anyway as I want a nice garden all that is being done is a different style of landscaping
so you would be buying, home creating or collecting all those rocks anyway
same goes for the plants.
The rich don't have hobbies they dont have time[:D]
As for retirement acording to some one I know don't wait that long or you still will not do it as you will end up doing all sorts of other jobs for friends family and your local comunity
This friend reckons its a good job he sorted out his RR interests while he was still working if he had left it till retirement trains would quite possably still be in thier boxex and track work at the still cannot run stage because he now has more work to do that when he worked for a living.
Hope this is of assistance.
regards John

[Chompers]

my RR is built on a 14 year old's budget.

[Rastun]

Hi jshrade,


Where to begin?

John did a really good job on 1 thru 3.

3 is an especially sticky one I try to stay out of basically look at them all and decide what would be best for the way you want to operate your railroad empire.

4 it seems more expensive but you are also getting a quite a bit bigger item for the price. If we compare some of the HO brass pieces at around $2000.00 to something like an extremely well detailed and scaled Accucraft "live steam" loco, the Accucraft is going to be cheaper. It goes both ways but a person can get by on a budget it just may take a bit of saving to get the item you want.

Shop around alot for your purchases. I would suggest getting a few copies of Garden Railways and look through the ads there are alot of vendors out there with just as many prices. Most of these vendors I would also call and do a price inquiry before ordering and make sure they have the item in stock.

I hope this helps you a bit good luck on your journey.

Jack

[Tom The Brat]

Another one escaping to the garden!

You've got some pretty good answers, so I'll just add,

Welcome to the forum!

[vsmith]

Jshrade, Welcome to Large Scale! I came from HOn30. You have to ask your self a few basic questions, a biggest being do I want Narrow Gauge (bachmann, some LGB) or standard guage (aristo, USA, some LGB) ? you state you like modern so that will give you a direction to go.
Just to answer question point by point.

... Now I've heard all the warnings about not using Bachmann track outdoors, and I rarely see Bachmann stuff referenced as 'good quality' stuff... so I had a few questions for a possible newbie crossover modeler....
Very good trains, good track for indoors, lousy track for ourdoors

1) What's the best (most cost effecient) way of delving into the world of outdoor garden RR's? Train set or piece by piece?
I started piece by piece but if you can afford it, LGB or Aristo both have really good starter sets, Aristo is going to sell a starter set that includes a Train Engineer R/C controller which I have now and is terrific! LGB's sets are less to scale but dam bulletproof reliable. Both will give you a basic loop and a good powerpack to start with. This loop will be with 2' radius curves (4' diameter), which are rapidly becoming obsolete in LS, the rule now, like HO is wider is better. Curves are measured in DIAMETER in LS, this is different than HO, and come in 4', 5', 6 1/2', 8', 10', 12' and now 20' diameter sectional track, and you can alway lay your own track with a track bender. 8' diameter is becoming the defacto standard for larger engines, its best to plan for it, but if your space constricted, their is plenty of modern stuff that works just fine on the 5 and 6' diameter stuff.

2) I really like present day equipment, which is readily available in HO. What's the availability like of modern locos and rolling stock in G scale?
Very good, it wasnt always, all LS started as narrow gauge, but Aristo & USA have been really adding to their stock of standard gauge modern equipement. Now I dare say you model any era, steam or modern. Just keep in mind that if you want modern you will have to plan form the widest curves possible, 8' diameter if you want to run a Dash-9, but if thats too large, a GP-9 is happy on 5 and 6' dia curves.

3) Radio Controlled, battery controlled, DCC or what? What's the best for outdoor use?
Start with track power on a simple layout, start simple, get operating, then get crazy. I use a Aristo Basic Train Engineer which is a handheld controller and a reciever that controls the power to the track, its track power, but you have a unteathered controller that allows you to follow the train around the layout, very handy.

4) Compared to HO scale, how much more expensive is G scale as a hobby? (for instance, 2 times more expensive, 10 times, etc). In other words, is this a retirement hobby or something a modeler on a budget can do?
It depends on how deep you want to get into it, some only have one engine, a few cars and are very very happy letting it roam around a simple layout in the yard. Others have full blown operations, and enough engines and cars to rival any large HO layout.
A big modern engine like a DASH can be found online for around $300, but a GP-9 is about $200, not to much more than some of that premium small stuff in HO, now you may only ever need one or two engines, so its not that tough an investment.

Most of the stuff I've seen is fairly pricey as far as my budget is concerned. Locos for over $300 (for a cheap one), cars run about $50-$100 each, track pretty pricey as well. Not to mention the cost of ballasting, plants, rocks, etc to go around the railroad. Am I looking in the wrong places, or is this a rich (or retired) man's hobby? lol
I have only spent more that $100 for only one engine, the rest were bought for less than $75, I have 20+ engines, granted they are all narrow gauge tram engines. My entire empire was nickeled and dimed together, if dirt poor me can do it, anyone can. The secret is to spread out the cost of things over time, dont go out and buy everything at once unless you want major sticker shock! I bought one box of track per month or one car per month or one engine per month. Now I'm up to my elbows in stuff, I recently had to horsetrade some stuff away!

This is probably the BEST single source of links to different large scale suppliers

www.g-scale-links.com

check out the Locomotives tab for MFR information, the Dealers tab for sellers, and the rest just to see whats avaliable in large scale, good luck and dont be timid with questions!
Vic

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Like Torby, I'd say you got the good answers; only thing I can add is when faced with a choice between similar products use your best judgement to buy the quality, $$$ be dammed. It will tell in the long run.

There are many personal opinions between Brass and Stainless track and you would do well to read over the arguments on the various fora. My vote goes to SS, however given different circumstances I can understand many arguments for brass.

The main thing is not to lose sight of the main thing and get something running, you can always sell or trade the mistakes later on.

[AtlasGP9]

Welcome to a great hobby. I too crossed over. I still dabble in the small stuff-- but our new house, while it has more square footage than the old one, has no decent spot for an indoor layout. I'm still puzzling that one out.
However, I've always dreamed of trains running through the garden, and I got started one piece at a time. I budget one hundred dollars a month, so it took me about two years to have my first loop up and running. I bought my loco, one box car and most of the necessary track last summer after saving my $100 bucks for 10 months. Over the last year, I've discovered mail order and bought smaller lots every couple of months.
I figure my start up costs were about $2000, but never spent all at once.
My loop, by the way is about 40' by 20' (narrower at one end than the other.
As for cost, some of the new HO stuff is getting pretty pricey too, if you ask me. A friend of mine sails as a hobby. Even discounting the initial cost of his boat, he spends a heck of a lot more than I do.

Hugh

[ttrigg]

Hey guys! I can't beleive everyone missing the mark on question #3

3) Radio Controlled, battery controlled, DCC or what? What's the best for outdoor use?

Remember he is a cross over from HO. What would be best for him is most likely what he was/is using in HO! He is already familiar with the characteristics and querks in the smaller scale.

[vsmith]

Wiring an indoor layout with wiring under benchwork is verrrrrrrrrry different from wiring an outdoor layout under ground. I suggested start simple then get complicated as your experience grows.

[Train 284]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Chompers

my RR is built on a 14 year old's budget.

Same here! If we can do it I think you can too! [:D]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ttrigg

Hey guys! I can't beleive everyone missing the mark on question #3

3) Radio Controlled, battery controlled, DCC or what? What's the best for outdoor use?

Remember he is a cross over from HO. What would be best for him is most likely what he was/is using in HO! He is already familiar with the characteristics and querks in the smaller scale.

Tom,

Just because you used a horse and buggy in the sticks doesn't mean you can't get a Model A when moving to town.[;)][:)][:D]

As a DCC user in different scales, I would recommend he look at battery power when moving to modern proto LS. You guys are treading too carefully!![;)][}:)][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

I use Digitrax DCC on my G scale. I always operate by myself and I love it. Just hook up two wires and play trains. The only problem I have is power enough to run alot of trains. That is soon to be taken care of with a booster. Before anyone jumps on the dirty track thingy, I keep a track cleaning car going on the first trains to run. When I do that, I don't have dirty track problems. It's just so easy and fun to run. Put a loco on the track anywhere, pointing in any direction, select it, and away we go. i run up to four locos at a time. Have two loops and a switching area. I run two trains on the big outer loop, and one small train on the inner. While they are going around,the loops, I'm using the switcher to build consists for the looping trains. Get's busy, and great fun!

[tangerine-jack]

Ok, here is my [2c] on the subject of cost- Sorry Iandor, not everybody can afford LGB. This should be good enough to get something running: a large oval or dogbone, decent loco, a few cars and a power pack. I got the prices from Ridge Road.

48 Pieces of Aristocraft track (straight or curved) $74.88
USA Trains 44 Tonner Style: R-22155 $119.99
Buddy L 4-Railcar Set $60.00
55450 Aristo 3.5 Amp Power w/5401 Controller $96.36
Total: $351.23

The USAT loco has LGB style couplers, and the cars have knuckles. Add about $5 per car or loco for KD's or LGB. Your choice on the install, it took me about 10 min to swap the couplers on my USAT.

Here's is my logic- asumptions: 1. you don't have unlimited budget 2. your knowledge of garden RR is limited (total newbie) 3. you want to get up and running with a minimum of effort.

I selected the Aristo-craft track because it's durable and low cost. 48 feet of track is not bad to start with and you can mix or match curved and straight sections to make a large variety of track plans.

The USAT 44tonner- I have one and love it to death! Smooth running, with great detail, it's a steal at $119. It will last you many years. RE the note above on the couplers.

Buddy L cars- I also have a set of these and 4 for $60 can't be beat. It's the quickest way to get cars on a short budget. I like the detail, and so far they have given flawless service.

Aristo 3.5 amp power pack- simple DC power to spare. It is a little more $$ than some other offerings, but I firmly believe that money spent here with a mind to expand later is well spent. There is no substitute for amps! I run a 10A system, but for a newbie I would think 3.5A is more than enough.

Your total investment of $351 is not bad at all, and about the price of a really nice HO engine. Of course everybody has thier own opinions and suggestions, but I don't see getting into the garden any cheaper than what I suggested and still have equipment that is good enough to not be frustrating. You could sub in a Heartland Mac switcher ($40) and Heartland mini-cars ($9 ea) to save even more, but I don't suggest scrimping on track or power.





[oX)]

[John Busby]

Hi tangerine jack
I agree with your sentiment.
however I cannot fully agree with your conclusion.
I don't think loco power should be skimped on iether
Its the locomotives track and power in combination that
make the railway work well so all three must be of equal best quality
you can afford with no short changing the budget.
Rolling stock as long as it has good running gear and matching couplings anything will do even new bright or other cheap toys the short comings on rolling stock can easaly be fixed gven time and a few bits and pieces.
Locomotives are a diferent story they are not so easy to fix and I for one
could not take a saw to a locomotive to sort it out and don't like messing with them so get ones I don't have to mess with which costs more.
tried it once and stuffed it never again some who know what they are doing can do it.
regards John

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

Ok, here is my [2c] on the subject of cost- Sorry Iandor, not everybody can afford LGB. This should be good enough to get something running: a large oval or dogbone, decent loco, a few cars and a power pack. I got the prices from Ridge Road.

48 Pieces of Aristocraft track (straight or curved) $74.88
USA Trains 44 Tonner Style: R-22155 $119.99
Buddy L 4-Railcar Set $60.00
55450 Aristo 3.5 Amp Power w/5401 Controller $96.36
Total: $351.23

The USAT loco has LGB style couplers, and the cars have knuckles. Add about $5 per car or loco for KD's or LGB. Your choice on the install, it took me about 10 min to swap the couplers on my USAT.

Here's is my logic- asumptions: 1. you don't have unlimited budget 2. your knowledge of garden RR is limited (total newbie) 3. you want to get up and running with a minimum of effort.

I selected the Aristo-craft track because it's durable and low cost. 48 feet of track is not bad to start with and you can mix or match curved and straight sections to make a large variety of track plans.

The USAT 44tonner- I have one and love it to death! Smooth running, with great detail, it's a steal at $119. It will last you many years. RE the note above on the couplers.

Buddy L cars- I also have a set of these and 4 for $60 can't be beat. It's the quickest way to get cars on a short budget. I like the detail, and so far they have given flawless service.

Aristo 3.5 amp power pack- simple DC power to spare. It is a little more $$ than some other offerings, but I firmly believe that money spent here with a mind to expand later is well spent. There is no substitute for amps! I run a 10A system, but for a newbie I would think 3.5A is more than enough.

Your total investment of $351 is not bad at all, and about the price of a really nice HO engine. Of course everybody has thier own opinions and suggestions, but I don't see getting into the garden any cheaper than what I suggested and still have equipment that is good enough to not be frustrating. You could sub in a Heartland Mac switcher ($40) and Heartland mini-cars ($9 ea) to save even more, but I don't suggest scrimping on track or power.

[oX)]

[#ditto]Good Advice

[tangerine-jack]

Good point, John. You are dead on that the track/power/loco makes or breaks a RR, I can't argue that one bit. I was just making a suggestion for someone on a very limited budget, so I was envisioning an oval or dogbone track plan with one train. Once a newbie gets that down and running, then watch out!

The heartland Mac is a decent loco and comes with LGB style couplers. I got it on sale for $36 and it is a little gem of an engine. With half a dozen Heartland mini-cars, it's a fun rig to watch.



[oX)]

[John Busby]

The heartland Mac is a decent loco and comes with LGB style couplers. I got it on sale for $36 and it is a little gem of an engine. With half a dozen Heartland mini-cars, it's a fun rig to watch.
[oX)]

[cacole]

Heartland's Doozie rail bus with trailing car makes a good beginning, too.

I, too, crossed over from HO to G, but I still have all of my HO trains and belong to a local HO club.

I use the AirWrie900 Wireless DCC system and battery power for all of my engines, and don't even have any wires connected to my track at all.

My most recent acquisition is an AccuCraft Mimi live steam engine.