Opinions Please

[Anonymous]

Hey Everybody, I have been a HO gauge modeler most of my life and 3 years ago succumbed to the adventures of starting a 'G' gauge, outdoor pike. My city lot is surrounded on three sides by privacy fences which are an eyesore to me. To take the "curse" off these unsightly barriers, I decided to build a large gauge R.R. (29 to 1) braced-off the vertical fence boards. The elevation of the road is an average 42" from ground level to the top of the rails. An 80' long straight section ending in a 20' (diameter) reversing loop supported by 4" X 4" X 6' vertical posts [away from the fence]. There is a 16' passing siding running to within 10' from the "stub end" (terminal). To keep expenses down I used 7" X 8" metal shelf braces running about 3' to 4' apart on the single track mainline and one 8" X 12" brace where the 10' (diameter) R. hand turnout opens the "loop." These metal "shelf braces" are screwed to the bottom of the 1" X 6" boards supporting the roadbed [horizontal] and 2" X 4" X 6" blocks screwed into the vertical fence boards. The "passing siding" is supported by six 4" X 4" X 6' vertical posts also. There is enough "open" space between the roadbed and the fence for locating planter boxes if I ever find my "green thumb." So far, I have only needed to do some "tweaking" after heavy winds to keep the road running reasonably well.

To date, I have only Aristo's Doodlebug (gas-electric), Aristo's 75' heavy weight R.P.O., two 40' Aristo steel box cars and a 65' steel interurban car that I scratch-built after a K.C. Mo. and St. Jospeh prototype. I plan on scratch-building a couple of 40' flat cars (easy) and a 50' gondola for running mixed freight and passenger branch line service. I'm running D.C.C. on the gas-electric and standard D.C. on the interurban . This makes for more interesting operation for the time being. Power is MRC Prodigy 2000 but am converting to "Advance" a.s.a.p. Future plans call for branching off the "reversing loop" at a right angle to it and traversing the width of the lot to yet another 20' [diameter] "open" loop, paralleling the "other" line on its' return. This will give me maximum main line distance for the space available. It will appear to be a section of double track "mainline." I have no plans for installing over-head catenary as Florida storms would make short work of it.

The final stage will be a small yard branching off the "open" reversing curve, maybe enough for 10 or so freight cars. By running interurban and mixed freight simultaneously, I should be kept fairly busy avoiding "corn field meets." If this piece has sparked any interest in a kindred soul or two, I would appreciate hearing your opinions on this Forum. Thanks, and keep those trains "on time." T.D.K.

[vsmith]

Ted

Sound interesting though I would like to know more about the fence, is it block, or wood? If its a wood framed fence I would recommend adding a pressure treated 4x4 under your track shelf at or near each fence post. Most fences were never intended to handle the additional wieght of a garden RR loco (up to 10 lbs) and track being hung onto one side of it. It will add a dynamic load that will tend over time to pull or rock the fence towards the weighted side each time a train goes by eventually leading to the failure of the fence posts at the base, just like a high wind can do. Adding the 4x4's to transfer the train shelf loads down to the ground and will help reinforce the fence. This will give you a much better and more reliable setup for many more years. Just my 2 cents...Vic

[tangerine-jack]

I would question the soil density and composition, are your fence posts well enough anchored to support the additional weight? How deep are they, concrete footings?

Sounds like you've got a really kick butt set up! Any chance of seeing a photo?

[oX)]

[cacole]

Here in Arizona a lot of people have cedar fences that blow down all the time in the wind because the idiots who erect them don't pour concrete around the posts and they rot out in just a few years.

Unless you know and trust your neighbors implicitly, and have their approval, I would be careful about hanging my track from their fence. If the fencing was already there when you moved in, it probably was paid for by those neighbors and is totally on their side of the property line. If they want to get really nasty for some reason, they can call the law onto you for hanging your track from their fence without permission.

What do you do if the neighbor suddenly decides to tear down the wooden fence and replace it with concrete blocks? People do that all the time around here as their wooden fences blow down and they learn how expensive it is to maintain a wooden fence.

[Anonymous]

Not knowing where your located climate wise makes it hard to determine how deep the post ought to be set. Here in Ohio post need to be 34 to 36 deep to avoid frostline heaving of the post. Also if you think about it lumber comes in 8ft 10 ft lengths so a 6 ft fence with an 8' pole is only barried 24 inches. I use 10 footers myself and cut them down. Also the higher the track level the more likely to pull over the fence with that leverage thing, more so with the wind factor the others mentioned.

[grandpopswalt]

TDK,

Sounds as though you're pretty well committed to the setup you’ve got. But if you ever decide to redo it you might consider placing your elevated roadbed on a series of “tables” connected end to end. Each table is about 42” tall X 36” deep and 96” long. They’re made of PTL 2”X4” ‘s. The legs are not buried in the ground so the tables “float” therefore frost heaves are not a problem. There’s enough mass to keep them firmly on the ground even in strong winds. Your reversing loops could be made of a series of shorter (length) and narrower segments. The center of the loop could be landscaped with container plants.

I’ve never built a full length RR using this method but have had good luck with individual “tables” constructed as described for experimental purposes.

Walt

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all of you who have responded to this Forum topic. If I may clear-up a couple of points brought forth by responders, let me begin with "vsmith:" The fence is indeed wooden (privacy type) 6 ft. high and although it has survived [in tact] two tropical storms of winds gusting 50-60 m.p.h., the additional 4" X 4" posts suggestion is valid. Tangerine-Jack: yes Jack, the fence posts are set 36" under the soil surface and in concrete footings. Jack, I haven't "sprung" for a digital camera just yet but hope to very soon. Cacole: I own the privacy fences and they are on my property. It wouldn't occur to me to build under any other circumstances. I opted to go with "nailed" not stapled [too flimsy] boards and 10 ft. length posts cut to 9 ft. In the more exposed (open) areas to wind, I added 2 in. X 4 in. 45 deg. supporting legs bolted to every vertical fence post and also to 36" deep (in concrete) posts at the foot of the [45 deg.] angle legs. Arizona climate is the antithesis to Florida's. Dry rot isn't a problem here but insects and rain are. I spray for termites weekly and apply concrete sealer to the wood each Spring. Carpenter matt: Please see comments to Cacole regarding the fence posts. As to the weight (leverage) issue, I may be okay as I am operating "light rail" in the form of a "gas-electric" hauling mixed [short consists] freight and interurban cars. When I build the yards; that will be a whole different ball game, of course. Sorry, I thought I mentioned Florida in my "Topic." Grandpopswalt: Yes Walt, the modular [table] concept would be fine indoors but I would be concerned with the "floating" support [outside] becoming a reality in some of our strong Florida tropical storms. My real purpose in utilzing the privacy fence was to "take the curse off these unsightly barriers." I wi***o thank you one and all for taking the time express your thoughts. Thanks again, T.D.K.

[grandpopswalt]

TDK,

There is a forum member, OLD DAD, who has a fine outdoor layout in MN where temps get down to -40 and summertime highs of 100+. His entire railroad is built on a
"floating" platform. The roadbed is attached to the floating framework. He's been in operation for 11 years now and has had zero problems. He also makes cement "mountains" over a wire armature. The wire is also attached to the framework and there have been only very minor stress fractures.

The concept is totally reliable and is much easier to install and maintain than any other elevated platform system that I can think of.

Walt

[Anonymous]

Thank you again Walt for your response. MN has great temperature variations but is not exposed to hurricane force winds which tend to uplift any flat, open horizontal surfaces. The safest construction for outdoor railroading in Florida is solid, closed under decking built directly to the ground with the layout constructed directly to the decking. There are no "open" areas underneath for high velocity winds to undermine the "deck" and the layout is elevated enough that damage from flooding is minimized. Granted the full force of a category 4 or 5 hurricane will leave little to discuss here.

Again, it is the unsightly view of the "privacy fence" that prompted me to build a diversion to it in the first place. If it weren't for the unique weather problems [high winds and heavy rain] in the Tampa Bay area, I'm sure the "floating" framework concept would be very stable. One good thing, I don't need to worry about "frost heaving" in this neck of the woods. Happy railroading Walt. Thanks again.

[tangerine-jack]

I live in South East VA and we get our share of winds and rain and humidity. Not as frequent as Florida, but I think "Chesapeake" is the native word for "Hazy, Hot and Humid". I am familiar with the soil and climate of Fl so my concern was with the stability of the posts. 36" and concrete is very solid and should serve you well. You're right, a cat IV storm would eliminate discussion of the railroad, fence, roof, shed, tree and anything else nailed down or not. That is the joy and sorrow of outdoor RRing, we must build strong and durable, but in the end nature will have her way.

I don't have a digital camera either (see my post under the internet poll!). I use a disposable and when I get it developed I request the pictures on disk. Please, share a photo![8D]

(I know, I know, "so where's your photos, T-J, you type a lot of smack, so back it up dude" Soon, I promise)


[oX)]

[Anonymous]

Thank you T-J for your response. At the moment I am repairing three Aristro turnouts. I used plastic floor covering and bungy cords to protect them from rain. Unfortunately, I applied too much lateral pressure on the rails (via bungy cords) which caused closure rails to pop loose from their mountigs (sliding bar). I am just finishing the passing siding and making repairs to some roadbed areas [damaged by severe weather]. It will be a while before the road is worthy of photographing. I'll take your hint on the "disposable camera" and "disk," good idea, thanks again. Oh by the way, I also lived in the Chesapeake Bay area (Crofton, Md.) for twenty years, so "hazy, hot and humid" sounds very familiar. Best of luck with your Pike.