LGB 2071D (Zilltertalbahn U-lokomotiv) -- Disassembly Advice

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LGB 2071D (Zilltertalbahn U-lokomotiv) -- Disassembly Advice
Posted by PVT Kanaka on Thursday, November 16, 2017 12:29 AM

Aloha,

Someday, I promise to be a source of solutions and not problems, but today is not the day.  "Gustav," our 80's vintage LGB 0-6-2T recently stopped working (again) pulling a light beverage train aroudn the garden.  The old fellow made a horrible grinding sound, and, in conversations with the folks at TrainLi, some back and forth with Chocho WIlly (Bill), and some posts on Large Scale Central as well as some inspection, it seems to be the idler gears.  Simple enough to get those parts.

Anway, when I pulled Gustav apart, I realized this old model does not have a speparate motor block.  Rather, its deckplates (sorry if I use nautical terms) split down the centerline, fore-to-aft, like two halves of a ship's hull.  You may be able to get a better sense of it from the original tech manual here:

There are a number of easily located and easily removed screws running along the port side of the lower hull, just inboard of the drivers.  The issue lies under the cab, where what I am going to call a glide plate straddles the centerline divide to support the trailing truck (See! I can learn railroad words!).  I am pointing to the glide plate with a screw driver in the photo below:

The problem is, I cannot seem to get the glide plate off.  The stems holding the plate have a narrower male fitting that goes into holes in the deck-plating.  These male fittings are smaller than those holes, so I suspect that glue or heat welding holds this in place, not friction.  In the somwhat blurry picture that follows, the screwdriver points to hole as viewed from the deck.  Just above where I am pointing, you can see light shining through where the centerline is, and just above that you can make out a sliver of light coming from the other hole in the deck that accomodates the male fitting for the other side of the glide plate:

So the question is, how do I get this glide plate off?

  1. Is there an LGB-safe solvent I could use?
  2. Should I cut the glide plate in half, then glue a thin sheet of styrene over it after I sway the idler gears and verify old "Gustav" is ready for service?
  3. Should I cut one of the glide plate's supports, then use a filler to glue it back together after the repair?
  4. Should I call it a day and send the old boy in for a professional repair and re-baseline this loco for the next several years?

As ever, I appreciate your help and guidance!

 

Aloha,

Eric

 

 

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Sunday, November 19, 2017 11:45 PM

All,

 

After more ponderng, I was thinking of drilling out the "male" fitting that sort of fits into the deckplate hole.  That way, I should be able to separate the two halves without interfering with the glide plate's function post repair.  I though I could then replace the"male" fitting with a screw post-repair to allow me to crack ol' Gustav open again should the need arise.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Eric

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:26 AM

OK, I am completely buffaloed by this.  I inspected that #$%@ glide plate tonight, and I  realized what I presume is a glue weld runs the entire length of the spacer separating the plate from the hull.  Drilling out those posts will not work.

I also took a hard look at how the trailing wheels mate to the body.  Basically, a tongue connects the axle to the pivot point, where a spring loaded plunger clamps it to that glide plate.  I am worried cutting the thing down the middle and placing a patch over it will impede travel post-repair.

This leaves trying to break what I think is a glue weld.  Is there an LGB safe solvent?  Or should I look for a place to get a knife edge under there and try to pry this off?  

There is also the wholly unsavory approach of trying to pry the hull's two halves as far apart as possible, popping out the old gears, and popping in new ones.  I am worried this will overly stress the hull given the age of the plastic, creating second order problems.  

Is it time to cry "uncle" on this repair and send "Gustav" in?  The old boy is too close to functioning to scrap and still cheaper to repair than to replace.

 

Thanks as always,

Eric

 

 

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Posted by chocho willy on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 3:54 PM

if there is something that will loosen the glue joint it is probably methyl ethyl keystone better known as MEK, ACE hardware and Lowes carry it. Very caustic use in a well ventilated area, it is a solvent that is used to bond certain kind of plastics together, but it will also unbond them. If used to join together you must put the solvent on both pieces and secure them together until they dry. With that being said I still would like to see the top part of the gear box. Looking at you picture in blue of the broke down parts it shows the motor coming out the top of the housing and not the bottom as you are trying to do. The gears on the axels were probably pressed on after the axles were slid in from the side, Bill

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:48 PM

Bill,

 

Thanks.  Per your request, you can see a top down shot of the gears here:

 

As you observed, the motor comes out fairly easily from the top.  The gears, however, are held in by the two halves of the hull.  The hull is structurally held together by multiple screws along the port side.  The glide plate, as I am calling it, straddles that centerline and is apparently glued on.  I sent you some images privately, but for the benefit of anyone else following along, here it is again:

I'll hold off on the MEK for now.

 

thanks,

Eric

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Sunday, December 10, 2017 6:34 PM

Attacking with MEK now...If I can't crack Gustav open, it'll be a toss between sending him in for repair and buying a powered tender.  So...close....

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Sunday, December 10, 2017 6:48 PM

Well, Angry. I missed a screw I thought only held an electrical bus in place. Now I have lots of spare MEK....

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Sunday, December 10, 2017 7:38 PM
All stop for now... After pulling Gustav apart, I found the after thrust bearing, which was nice. Then I easily swapped out the idlers and screwed the two halves of the hull together. I noted no amount of jiggling would get the after idler to remain engaged with the gear on the rear axel, so I pulled the old guy back apart. Turns out, the gear on the rear axel had split along its shaft, allowing the gear itself to slide along the axel, come out of alignment, and ultimately lead to the failure of this loco, to include damage to the after idler. Or at least that's my theory... Have to contact TrainLi and see if I can get this part. Aloha, Eric
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Posted by ttrigg on Sunday, December 10, 2017 8:59 PM

Sounds like you are about to graduate from the 'School of Hard Knocks' with a Masters degree.

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Posted by PVT Kanaka on Monday, December 11, 2017 12:38 AM

Tom,

You have no idea.  2017 was supposed be the year of making structures; it has become the year of restoring locomotives.  Between this and the Bachmann 4-6-0, I have about had it, even if I have learned quite a bit.  After disassembling and reassembling these things, I can make a much more informed purchase if and when the Triple O finally invests in an American-style loco.

Back to the matter at hand, since I had to download photos to start shopping for the part, in this one, the screwdrive head points at the screw that has been hiding in plain sight for weeks now.  You can also see to old idlers, and you might make out the damage on the one to the right, the former after idler:

Here's the old boy all opened up, new idlers installed.  Note this '80s vintage loco has fore and aft external thrust bearings:

As mentioned, I buttoned Gustav up, only to find that the after idler would not engage.  After cracking the hull open, I found the drive gear on the after axle had split at what I will call the collar, and the whole thing drifted out of position.  You can see grease seeping through the crack, and you can make out the serrations in the axle that at one time grabbed the plastic:

And now, we wait for the parts supplier...This time, I am going to combine the order with some treats.  The passengers are demanding lighted coaches, it seems! Big Smile

 

Have a great week!

Eric

 

 

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