First I want to say that I love the Aristocraft product line - I have over 800 feet of brass track, several dozen switches, 16 engines, over 100 pieces of rolling stock, with lots of Crest (new) Revolution TE equipment.
It is clear to me that Aristo / Crest / GenNext is not bringing out anything new (such as finishing the USB dongle project) or re-manufacturing even the most popular old models (including the Eggliners which would have been tremendous sellers at Christmas) because when the Polks retired and relabelled the firm as Crest and GenNext, they seem to have taken the working capital out of the business. Many of the Aristo users have placed messages in the Aristo Forum encouraging the firm to produce more product for us to buy, even pointing out that the price of copper is now almost half what it was in 2011. They don't even market replacement rail joiners (brass) even though they list it (like many other items are listed but not actually sold).
In response to numerous pleas the curator of the Aristo Forum has deleted successfully posted messages about this issue and locked the threads. This even includes messsages suggesting that the firm ask hobbyinst to prepay for rolling stock / engines, and offering to do so ourselves.
I would like to see other G Scale hobbyists suggest how we can open a dialog with the firm to get them to see that there is a market, reduced as it might be, and to recapitalize even minimally so that they can test my premise.
It is disconcerting that the firm's response is to censor the favorable and productive suggestions under the apparent hope that silence will deceive the consumers into thinking that the firm has ??? I can't think of what they are trying to have us think about their future.
It is disconcerting that no other train forum has ever censored it's own customers on the forum when the censored comments say nothing derrogatory about the firm and are nothing more than reasonable, productive suggestions.
Aristocraft (Polks Model Hobbies) no longer trades under that name. Polks GenNext is a searate company as is Crest Electronics. It was always Aristo Forum policy not to allow comment - good or critical - about another company.
The Aristo Forum was kept operational for people wanting to discuss and enquire about Aristo Craft products only.
As far as Crest or Polks GN is concerned then I can only suggest a phone call or e-mail to them.
Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad
https://www.buckfast.org.uk/
If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)
First, Aristo's policies have been panned far and wide for many years. Folks used to do LXB and UXA to try to get a decent discussion started.
Personally, I gave up on them long, long ago, but those folks, like you, who have an investment are stuck.
The stuff you see out of neXt will probably continue the same for some time until the backlog of stuff in the PRC is finally all shipped.
Unfortunate, but that's what has been happening.
If you want big, modern stuff, evilbait or local sales are really your only choices anymore.
You can wait and hope, or just move to some other brand and continue.
As stated, it isn't the firm's response to censor, per se. It is the website and forum, run buy a relative of the defunct company that is censoring comment...of Scott's startup.
Generation neXt is a new company, hoping to pick up where the older Polks dropped it, and with Kader/Sanda Kan production fixed in the PRC (People's Republic of China), and that's where the issues are.
The old forum has only to do with those things the old company made. Anything Generation neXt is not in the purview.
TOC
For a while on that forum, I was one of Lewis' favorites, referring people to my posts and ideas because I was an engineer, and had figured a few things out on workarounds and improvements.
On the Aristo forum, I had "superstar" status, the highest rating with more than 5,000 posts.
Then one day, I got a call directly from Lewis, during working hours. He insisted that I change MY WEBSITE on my review of the Prime Mover motor block, or I would no longer be able to reference my website from my forum signature.
Things went from bad to worse, and eventually I was banned, with all the Kool Aid sipping "worshipers" joining Lewis in references to me as a Troll and in general a bad guy.
So, I saw the recent locked thread where someone was very upset about his thread being locked because he just recounted his difficulties reaching someone at Crest-Electronics.
Grow up.
The Aristo forum has ALWAYS censored and controlled the posts to do everything to post a rosy picture of all Aristo products. Many people embraced this "clique" mindlessly, people often refer to them as Kool Aiders. If you are just realizing this, then either you are new to the hobby or are and ex-Kool Aider, no insult intended, but REALLY?
Another important point in this particular instance, Crest-Electronics (owned by Lewis) NO LONGER SELLS ARISTO ROLLING STOCK OR TRACK, just the Revolution and some minor knicknacks. So ragging on Crest-Electronics about Aristo rolling stock just shows a lack of knowledge of who owns what.
Likewise, GeneratioNext is owned by a different person, and realize that his "blood relation" to Lewis makes not one whit of difference, and GeneratioNext is in NO way related to the Aristo forum.
(In fact Lewis left Scott holding the bag, where the Chinese will not give Scott anything new until he sells all the stuff Lewis ordered and never paid for).
So, my advice is get your facts straight when you complain about something. Sure I'm disappointed on how things turned out, but Aristo's arrogant attitude and surrounding themselves with "yes men" to believe everything is great led to their demise. They killed themselves.
Greg
Visit my site: http://www.elmassian.com - lots of tips on locos, rolling stock and more.
Click here for Greg's web site
Greg Elmassian For a while on that forum, I was one of Lewis' favorites, referring people to my posts and ideas because I was an engineer, and had figured a few things out on workarounds and improvements. On the Aristo forum, I had "superstar" status, the highest rating with more than 5,000 posts. Then one day, I got a call directly from Lewis, during working hours. He insisted that I change MY WEBSITE on my review of the Prime Mover motor block, or I would no longer be able to reference my website from my forum signature. Things went from bad to worse, and eventually I was banned, with all the Kool Aid sipping "worshipers" joining Lewis in references to me as a Troll and in general a bad guy. So, I saw the recent locked thread where someone was very upset about his thread being locked because he just recounted his difficulties reaching someone at Crest-Electronics. Grow up. The Aristo forum has ALWAYS censored and controlled the posts to do everything to post a rosy picture of all Aristo products. Many people embraced this "clique" mindlessly, people often refer to them as Kool Aiders. If you are just realizing this, then either you are new to the hobby or are and ex-Kool Aider, no insult intended, but REALLY? Another important point in this particular instance, Crest-Electronics (owned by Lewis) NO LONGER SELLS ARISTO ROLLING STOCK OR TRACK, just the Revolution and some minor knicknacks. So ragging on Crest-Electronics about Aristo rolling stock just shows a lack of knowledge of who owns what. Likewise, GeneratioNext is owned by a different person, and realize that his "blood relation" to Lewis makes not one whit of difference, and GeneratioNext is in NO way related to the Aristo forum. (In fact Lewis left Scott holding the bag, where the Chinese will not give Scott anything new until he sells all the stuff Lewis ordered and never paid for). So, my advice is get your facts straight when you complain about something. Sure I'm disappointed on how things turned out, but Aristo's arrogant attitude and surrounding themselves with "yes men" to believe everything is great led to their demise. They killed themselves. Greg
I sorta tried to keep the gasoline off this fire...but basically that's the entire story.
Have fun with your trains
We're in "speculation territory" now -- but Aristo brought out new Eggliners right up to th end so someone was making rolling stock for them. Also, I believe that some engines were still coming off the line with the new motors up to when they had their close out sale.
The controlling question I have always had is who is in possession of the molds and plans and who owns them (not the same - I heard there was some reluctance of the manufacturer to give them up).
If the molds / plans could be released, there is a possibility that US state incentives in certain low wage states could make it viable with automation to make and sell these trains from CONUS.
there was no speculation in any of my statements
new eggliners? not a new product, and yes, Lewis ordered a bunch of stuff as he drove the company into the ground. That just reinforces my previous post.
possession is nine tenths of the law, Kader has the molds, but this comment is a distraction, they will make anything for anyone given the right amount of money.
hte trains can only be economically produced in large quantities and would only be more expensive produced outside of China.
Aristo design is not going to command higher prices.
M_Parsons We're in "speculation territory" now -- but Aristo brought out new Eggliners right up to th end so someone was making rolling stock for them. Also, I believe that some engines were still coming off the line with the new motors up to when they had their close out sale. The controlling question I have always had is who is in possession of the molds and plans and who owns them (not the same - I heard there was some reluctance of the manufacturer to give them up). If the molds / plans could be released, there is a possibility that US state incentives in certain low wage states could make it viable with automation to make and sell these trains from CONUS.
Geez. This has been churned over for so long...I suppose only someone who was a staunch advocate on the Aristo Forum would have missed the truth.
Speculation?
Sounds like Polkspeak...along the lines of "pay no attention to the west coast experts".
Since Polks moved production from Korea (REA) to PRC, it has been the Sanda Kan Factory, now owned by Kader (who also owns Bachmann and does the USA production bit) that built the AC stuff.
There are amny ways to have things built by Sanda Kan or Kader, and probably most other PRC manufacturers. All hinges around how much money you have.
Some manufacturers are "price is our only concern", forget QC, just make it cheap, and for those, PRC makes the tooloing and owns it.
"Some reluctance"? You approach Kader, hat in hand, and say "we want you to make us some 1:29 SD-45's". Okay. We'll start at the top. If you want to own the tooling, have full parts support, and unliminted right of refusal (to force them to make it right), these will COST you $500 each.
Now, let's go to the other end...if you want us to develop the tooling, one right of refusal, occasional parts support, these will COST you $100.
For any company that only cares about cost, what path would you take?
Can you convince them to release the molds and tooling? Sure, but they will want all the development and tooling costs back, plus whatever the local PRC government wants....and then the "brokers" will show up with claims against you....(ask some German company how that worked).
Sanda Kan, Kader, PRC owns the tooling.
Nobody stateside has the money or desire to pursue repatriating said tooling.
Remember when the SD-45's came out?
I recall distinctly a well known person in the hobby telling me I could call Sanda Kan, tell them I wanted a 1:29 SD-45 with hairball couplers, and other than where to send the money, the only question would be "what company name do you want on the bottom of the engine and on the box?"
The power truck patent is cosmetic only, easy to get around, and hey, PRC don't care about no patents anyway.
Similar well known personages in the hobby acknowledged before the cessation of business by Aristo (and before any of the supporters had any clue) that there were 2-1/2 containers of stuff on the loading dock in the PRC.
At this date, with Scott having to buy all the stuff left there, it sort of becomes apparent that the previous management team at Aristo did NOT pay for all that stuff, but hey, that's just observation of evident facts.
Bringing all this stuff in....scrambled egg liners, 0-4-0's with matching cabooses, you really think to make an impact on the hobby and maybe even make some money Scott would order more eggliners? Or do you think he would order oh, Dash 9's, Mallets, you know, things people seem to want?
Aristo is gone. Nobody there to answer your call or e-mail.
With Kader calling the shots on the other end, probably not a good idea to count on someone reviving the company any time soon.
I mean, yeah, some sugar daddy could come along and POOF!, all would be well, but in this day and age, how many folks want to plow money into something that may just permanenetly swallow it up?
Just wait. Give it another 6-10 years, and if the hobby itself is still here, maybe.
While this thread is gone off in a more historical direction, the main message to the op is you CANNOT lump Aristo / Crest / NextGen in the same category.
Aristo - gone
Aristo forum - run by Lewis Polk's son forever and reflects Lewis' wishes
Crest Electronics - owned by Lewis, sells Revolution, has some old Aristo parts.
Polk's GenerationNext - owned by Scott Polk, nephew of Lewis Polk, but NO financial or business connection.
So examples of things that don't make sense:
Complaining about GenerationNext on Aristo forum
Calling Crest electronics to buy "Aristo" track
Complaining to Scott about Lewis / Aristo forum / Crest
Complaining to Lewis about Scott / GenerationNext / new "Aristo" products.
And lastly, apparently complaining to anyone about where the new sound files are for the Revolution
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