Stuck Stainz

[PVT Kanaka]

Aloha,

 

One of my 1980-s vintage LGB "Stainz" locomotives is not working.  I do not think it is an electrical pick up issue, as the head and rear lights come on, rising and falling with applied voltage.  If pushed, the old girl will totter down a test track a bit then stop. 

I next thought it might be physical blockage.  A visual inspection of the wheels and siderods showed no obvious interfernce, but some scraping with a dental pick where the axels enter the body did pull some fuzz from the grease. I am theorizing the symptoms point towards old carpet fuzz may have wound its way into the gears. 

 

I have the original tech manual, so I could pull her apart, but I wanted to see if there was a less invasive troubleshooting technique I should try first.  If I have to operate, is this something a rookie should attempt? Or should I send her off to one of the various advertised repair specialists?

Thanks & Enjoy your Weekend!

Eric

[Greg Elmassian]

It really sounds like you need to take apart, clean and re-lube. You might damage the unit trying to get it to run without doing this.

 

Greg

[PVT Kanaka]

Greg,

 

Thanks.  I will have to wait for a day when I don't have "help."  In the meantime, she is safe on a shelf high and out of reach!

 

Eric

[Curmudgeon]

Could be gunked up...but if you can turn the wheels by hand, probably naught.

Worn out brushes, making momentary contact most likely. You need to open it up, pull the motor, check that the tabs on the motor are making full contact with the rods (had a lot of issues with them over the years), re-tweaking the tabs to make better contact will help that.

I can walk you though pulling the brush assemblies for cleaning on old Buehler motors when you get it opened up.

TOC

 

[PVT Kanaka]

TOC, Thanks. I'll turn to after the New Years when I have some safe table space again. Eric

[PVT Kanaka]

TOC,

Happy New Year!

I spent the late afternoon opening my STAINZ.  Below you can see what her innards look like.  Considering her age (~34 years old), the interior is pretty clean! 

 

I did not find any noticeable "gunk" like carpet fibers or animal fur in the gearing, so it seems the issue is, in fact electrical.  I am hoping I will not have to open up the motor can!

 

I will be unable to work on her for a few days. I look forward to whatever help you can provide.

 

Aloha,

Eric

[emdmike]

If she has lots of miles on her, you might just be better off replacing the motor whiles its opened up.  If you have a good shop there or you can give Rick or Ross a call at Zionsville Train Depot in Indiana. They normaly have the motors instock as repair of LGB is one of thier main services.  I was just at thier shop yesterday.   Mike

[PVT Kanaka]

EMD Mike, Thanks. We have no shops in the whole state other than a collectibles place in Lihue (a $200 round trip plane ride away!). I may go the replacement route, but, since I get killed by shipping, I'll see if there is a repair I can try first. If it fails, then I will certainly try your recommended source of supplies. Aloha, Eric

[PVT Kanaka]

Today, I found out the hard way those little thrust bearings at the end of the shafts come out and, like all small parts, do not actually fall straight down.  Anybody know off hand what size those bearings are?

In the meantime, I am weighing getting a new motor to reassamble the STAINZ before I fumble away more small parts.  The old one will go towards figuring out how to fix these in the future.

 

- Eric

[PVT Kanaka]

Addendum" While I am at it, as Part #62201 the current replacement for the old can motor (Part #2200, I think) I have in there?

[PVT Kanaka]

TOC-

 

I finally attached some leads to the motor.  It vibrates a bit, tries to turn, and then it just stops.  I suspect, therefore, it is not the tabs.  Pulling and cleaning the brushes is not something I've done before, but I am willing to give it a go.

As an alternative, should I buy a new motor and use this one as a "learning device?"  I have an old shell that I am considering repowering as a part of an overall attempt to gain some modeling skills back.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[Greg Elmassian]

I'd wager the brushes are worn/damaged. I'd look into a new motor. You can try submerging the motor in alcohol and running it to see if it is just dirty, worth a try. Greg

[Curmudgeon]

PVT Kanaka

TOC-

 

I finally attached some leads to the motor.  It vibrates a bit, tries to turn, and then it just stops.  I suspect, therefore, it is not the tabs.  Pulling and cleaning the brushes is not something I've done before, but I am willing to give it a go.

As an alternative, should I buy a new motor and use this one as a "learning device?"  I have an old shell that I am considering repowering as a part of an overall attempt to gain some modeling skills back.

 

Thanks,

Eric

 

 

The ball bearings are attractible via magnet. You'll find it.

On the brushes...mark one side (tip of an xacto works) red or black, "R" or "B" in the metal case.

With a chisel blade xacto, prise the end black cap straight off.

Now, with same chisel blade, catch under the red or black brush holder nearest the armature, and wedge the brush holder straight up and away.

Do both.

Clean the communtator segments. I use lighter fluid and a q-tip (or three). CAREFULLY drag the tip of a regular xacto down the segment slots, from windings away, and re-clean.

Clean bushes and holder. How much brush is extending out?

Usually a lot, like.....not quite 1/4" new, maybe 3/16". If the thickness of a business card, they are shot, and no idea on source of new ones.

New motors are internally thrusted, you don't need or use the ball bearings any longer.

 

TOC

[PVT Kanaka]

TOC,

 

Thanks for the detailed instructions.  The bearing is gone (We went over the wholde dining room with a magnet), but I cand find something, I am sure, to replace it.

I will try pulling apart the motor this weekend.  I'll post a photo before determinig its fate.

 

- Eric

[PVT Kanaka]

TOC:

I have been trying to pry off those red and black brush holders for about 45 minutes.  No joy...I am being deliberately delicate, so that might be it, but I don't want to make things worse.  I figured it was time to get some help.

 

1. As I examined the red and black plastic I assume are the brush holders, I noted two brass fold-down tabs on the end of the caps about midway between the motor shaft and the edge of the motor.  Do I need to pry these open?
2. I also noted the caps are formed from two pieces, with the seam in line with the metal tabs that cut in from the silver-metal casing.  Is this where I stick the chisel blade to start prying?  Or do I pry where the plastic meets the brass-looking casing?
3. Finally, I noted the copper wound drums just inside the red and black brush holders have different alignments relative to the casing.  On the red side, a plane drawn from the top of the brass casing would bisect that drum.  On the black side, the drum is not parallel to the casing, and, if it were, that same plane would bisect a cord about 1/2 to 2/3 out from the drum's centerline.  Is this right?  Or is this the problem (and a sign I should get a new motor)?

 

I spent some time on YouTube and the internet to refamiliarize myself with DC motors, so all is not lost this evening.

Thanks for your continuing help,

 

Eric

 

- Eric

 

Als

[PVT Kanaka]

TOC,

 

Quick upate.  My father-in-law and I did a bit of trouble shooting with a multimeter.  There was no appreciable voltage drop accross the motor, nor was there any appreciable resistance as we spun it manually.

I'll try cracking it open this week.

 

- Eric

[PVT Kanaka]

FYI, I never could figure out how to get the can open. As this loco was a gift from my brother, I feel duty bound to have her running before his family's visit. Looks like this will be a repower rather than a repair. Thanks to all for the guided review of electric motors!

[PVT Kanaka]

New motor on hand...I ought to have her repowered soon!

[PVT Kanaka]

She lives! I have two screws left over, but all the parts are on and a side by side comparison with her sister doesn't give me any help. Apparently, they don't stop her from rolling! We'll get her out in the garden this week to kick off her next 35 years of service! Thanks again to all for their help and guidance on this project!

[PVT Kanaka]

Post Script:

"Ruby" headed out to the garden today.  I noticed her reverse light was on as she steamed away going forward.  The headlamp came on when I reversed her.  I found out the hard way that it matters which way you drop in the motor!  I saw no markings on the can, however, that would have made it clear to me.

On the upshot, I am getting quite good at fieldstripping a STAINZ, and I found out where those mystery screws needed to go!

 

Enjoy your weekends!

-Eric