Ok. Got my first loco. Check. Got a few feet of track. Check. Determined to avoid track power, want to go battery/rc and (eventually) live steam. Which system to use?
Airwire? Hard to find decoders these days, it seems.
Revolution? Limited selection of loco sounds; Aristo closing its doors (I know Crest is officially separate now, but the closure still makes me leery).
QSI Titan? Pricey? Maybe?
Need decision... so confused...can't... think... anymore...
(gurgle gurgle wheeeeeeze...)
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
You might investigate G-Scale Graphics -- http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/DelTapparo/gscalegraphics_3_011.htm - RailBoss offerings.
I use the RailBoss 4 exclusively and am very please with the performance, price and support. There was also a review in the November GR (I think).
AirWire is NOT just a decoder, it is also a radio receiver. I run only battery power, using rechargeable lithium battery packs and AirWire receiver/decoders and Phoenix P8 sound systems.
AirWire hard to find? Not at all! You can order either directly from CVP Products in Richardson, Texas or from any number of G-scale on-line dealers such as RLD Hobbies.
Suggestion: Go to the CVP Products web site and read their AirWire documentation. You can do the same for all of the other systems you might be interested in, because they all have on-line documents available. Just type the name of the product into Google or other search engine.
The QSI Titan is a sound decoder only for track power. I have never used anything else to know how they perform.
Crest Electronics, from everything I have read, will continue to be made and supported, so I don't really think that should be something to worry about.
Airwire is the one that keeps drawing my attention; people seem quite pleased with the Airwire/Phoenix combo. Every website I can find lists the internal antenna/terminal block unit (a G3, IIRC) as out of stock. CVP's website doesn't shed any light on stock levels.
The guy at my LHS is a Revo fan and pulling hard on the reins to make me one too. I dunno, only one 'generic steam' soundset? How's that work for a Shay?
The Titan can (apparently) be fitted with a radio receiver to convert it over to R/C. It works with its own wireless cabs and/or Aristo cabs as well. Pricey though; the receiver is $130(ish) on top of the cost of the decoder. Yuck.
I think I'm leaning towards Airwire/Phoenix, at least for the next ten minutes...
Gaah!! Decisions!!
Stu
Cacole described the situation pretty succinctly. The only system I have personal experience with is the Revolution. It is easy to install and operates easily. Personally, I don't use the Crest sound yet. It is very basic and as you have said there is only a choice between a generic diesel and a generic steam. What I use is the Revolution receiver and Phoenix sound.
Airwire as I understand it offers some more variables to "play" with using much of the DCC protocols. The QSI can be used with battery if you add an additional board to interface with Airwire or other RC system.
Unfortunately, the only system you can use that provides multi manufacturers is track powered DCC. Since I am totally battery powered, this option isn't available to me. I believe that viability and future availability of the Revolution is as good as any of the other proprietary systems.
Good luck with your choice. Any of the systems will give you flexibility and lots of enjoyment when running your trains, I'm sure.
Ed
RLD Hobbies in Albion, Illinois has the AirWire G3 in stock. Many on-line dealers, including CVP Products, don't keep their web sites up-to-date to indicate whether items are really available or not, but RLD is very good about keeping his site current.
What's really strange, though, is that he shows a picture of the older G2 instead of the G3.
He also has batteries, chargers, Phoenix sound systems, and everything else needed for an installation.
If you phone, he'll even recommend the best combination based on the locomotive you have without trying to sell you items that you don't really need.
http://rldhobbies.com/airg2.aspx
Robby also sells the other systems and components you mentioned in your original message, so his site is a good place to comparison shop and study details of each system.
If you decide to go with battery power instead of track power, and depending on your knowledge of matters electrical, you can save a significant amount of money by building your own battery packs.
Garden Railways Magazine, December 2012 issue, had a feature article entitled, "Build your own battery packs," that listed some mail order sources for battery holders and lithium batteries. Using their information, I have been able to build my own battery packs for around $25 each that are equivalent to ones that cost over $100 each.
I second the fact that RLD hobbies is an excellent resource, and his prices are very competitive. As stated above, Robbie is very helpful too.
eheadingWhat I use is the Revolution receiver and Phoenix sound.
Oh, now that is interesting. I hadn't read anywhere that the Revo receivers can be used with add-on sound decoders. Would that work with, say, this one?
http://rldhobbies.com/cre57000-1.aspx
If that's a yes, it might just be a game changer. Thank you all for the great advice!
Seeing as how you intend to go with live steam you might like to consider my RCS range of Digital Proportional R/C Transmitter hand pieces, DSM2 RX's and ESC's.
The same TX hand piece can be used for both Live Steam and battery R/C and will save you big $$$$.These are DSM2 (Spektrum and Orange) compatible and provide the only true one handed Digital Proportional speed control with a knob.
The ESC's are compatible with Phoenix, Dallee and MyLocosound.
Best wishes,Tony Walsham (Remote Control Systems) http://www.rcs-rc.comModern technology. Old fashioned reliability.
Stu, the answer is as definite "yes". In fact I am doing that exact thing. I have one receiver with the generic steam sound. I just don't use the sound and wire up the receiver as I used to before the sound was added. Works just fine.
Hmm. Lots of food for thought here. RLD does seem like a great source... Revolution may have more promise than I figured...
Time to digest it all. Thanks everyone for their input!
While the revolution works for most, my issue is the low current output for lights. You need to add smoke unit boards to handle any current over 100ma and bulbs need 100 ohm resistors added to limit current surges.
Other battery systems have higher current drive outputs.
Low current lights for steam engines is OK, but engines with lots of bulbs are an issue.
I guess you're talking about controlling individual light, Dan? I run a Dash 9, an SD40 and a pair of GP40's with no problem at all. But I don't separate out individual lights to control. I just let them operate as the manufacturer built it (for instance I don't have Mars lights, etc.). As a result I haven't had any problems at all. Could you elaborate a little more about the specific problems you've run into??
Thanks,
Revolution should have downloadable sound files early this year. They have a USB adapter that transmits the new files to the TX or RX as necessary. I know we have heard promises before, but I have a lot of faith in Scott and Navin. I would like to run trains and let most of the sounds take care of themselves. It would be nice to have the sound something like the locomotive. I am using Revolution and am very happy with it. I am very happy with paying less than $100 per locomotive.
Tom
Yes, individual light controls are the issue. I rewire all lights for control and have had current issues with the revo. Airwire G3 was much easier and no add-on boards were needed to make this one work.
I mostly do DCC upgrades, but I do other types at times. So, i am familiar with MTS, Zimo, Airwire, Revolution, and the Aristocraft/crest line of 27 and 75mhz systems.
I figured that was what you were talking about, Dan. You convert the engines much more sophisticatedly than I do. Aristo engines, of course, I just plug the receiver in. When I convert USA or LGB engines, I take the lazy man's way out. I just wire them in so that the engine itself thinks it is getting straight track power. In my case from batteries, but it would be the same if I were using track power. This doesn't give you quite as realistic control of lights etc., but it works for me. My method is definitely the lazy man's way though, compared to the way you do it.
With Airwire I can sit on my back porch and control locos 135 feet away.Very satisfied with there there support.
I use all three systems (Titan/G-wire; Revo/Phoenix; Airwire/Phoenix). I'm perfectly happy with all of these combinations. I typically choose which one I'm going to use based on the space I have available for the installation. No clear winner in my mind, and I'm decidedly on the "power user" end of the spectrum in terms of what I want from my throttles.
Of the three, the Revolution is probably the "simplest" system in terms of programming and operation. I like the plain-English programming menu, and it interfaces well with the Phoenix (and other) sound system. The Revo is not a DCC-protocol-based system, but its motor control parameters are similar in terms of being able to set start and maximum voltages, and--to an extent--adjust speed curves to match speeds on two locomotives running together. You can also consist multiple locos together to run as a single unit. You must trigger the sounds on the Phoenix or other sound boards via external triggers. The Revolution gives you 6 function triggers, which is one or two more than a stock Phoenix board will let you connect, so you're good. (I use bell, whistle, water fill, and grade crossing as my 4 sounds.) The Revo will also interface with other non-DCC sound boards such as those from Dallee, MyLocoSound, Soundtraxx (Sierra, out of production but still available 2nd hand). You can also just use the "stock" sound on the Revo boards, but in my opinion, it's a bit on the generic side, not (yet) customizable, and you don't have "real time" control of the bell or whistle. They play in preset patterns. The Revolution wins on the cost front, with the receivers running between $80 - $110 depending on where you look. Add in the cost of the Phoenix, and you're looking at around $250 per loco.
The Airwire/Phoenix combination is also very nice. Airwire's new G3 motor/light decoder has some very nice features in terms of motor control and new lighting features. The "cruise control" on the Airwire throttle allows you to set a specific speed and the locomotive will maintain that speed despite fairly significant changes in grade or curves. My dad's railroad has some very steep grades (5%+) and it held a constant speed going up and down changes in those grades. Since the Airwire uses the DCC command protocol, it can interface with the Phoenix sound board at a higher level than the Revolution. You can control up to 28 unique functions with the Airwire board and their latest transmitter. The Airwire receivers will run you around $130 - $140, so combined with the Phoenix, that's going to be $320ish per locomotive.
The QSI Titan-Gwire combination is on par with the Airwire/Phoenix combination in terms of both motor control and sound. The only "criticism" I have of the Titan is that it's a very complex system. There's so much that you can customize on these boards that it can be daunting to figure out what does what. But the reward is worth it. I highly recommend getting QSI's PC programming module if you go this route. The manual (downloadable from QSI's web site) is over 400 pages! You're looking at in the neighborhood of $330 - $340 for this combination.
The Airwire and QSI systems can use the same transmitters, though there are compatibility issues when it comes to programming the Airwire boards with the QSI/NCE transmitter. Note also that the G-wire receiver is currently undergoing an upgrade; the old ones are obsolete, and the new ones should be on the market shortly. This may have an effect on compatibility. But long story made short (too late, I know), you're likely going to want multiple transmitters at some point, so why not buy one of each? That was my logic behind getting the Revolution system as well. I've got multiple transmitters for multiple platforms, so if there should be a "supply issue" with one particular system when it comes time to install a control system in a locomotive, I've got other options available.
Later,
K
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