i got small transformers from 2 lgb train sets and now i need to know, how do i get power to the far side of the track with out it falling short of watts or power to the train. i want to run conduit underground with the wire... is it safe that way, and what gauge should i use. i got lgb brass and do i realy have solder the connections or the connections i got are good the are scew on. thanks chad from pittsburgh pa.
ps. should i up grade the power supply or stay with what i got... money issues suck
This has been the subject of endless discussions.
A simple answer that would work for ANY number of locos is solder jumpers between sections, power to the track every 30-40 feet, and use 10 gauge wire.
Can you use smaller wire, can you use fewer feeders, can you not have the jumpers?
Sure, now you need to provide:
length of tracks
type of joiners
number and kind of locos
etc. etc.
Greg
Visit my site: http://www.elmassian.com - lots of tips on locos, rolling stock and more.
Click here for Greg's web site
G'day Chad.
You are describing exactly how I started out in large scale over 25 years ago. My first LGB locos were two Stainz 0-4-0's. These draw very little power, about 0.25 amps at 12 volts. You can power two of them off one of the LGB power packs. The problems arise when you take things outdoors.
I say that LGB is the best track for outdoors, but the joiners can become loose and stop conducting power. When setting up, make sure the joiners are clean inside and the mating rail is clean. Then apply a bit of conductive grease to keep conductivity. If the joiners are loose, crimp them very slightly to make sure there is good mechanical connection. The screw clips which connect power to the track are okay, but you really should consider something more permanent. I use rail clamps and 1/8th eyelets crimped to the end of the power wires to connect, and I have never had a failure. Each maker of railclamps has its own method of connection, but they can be made to work on the same principles.
After about 5 to 10 years the joiners started to fail, so I fitted 'over the joiner' rail clamps or replaced them completely with rail clamps. Soldering jumper wires would also work, but you need to know the tricks, so you don't melt the sleepers (ties). I now have about 300 to 400 feet of track over two loops and four independent blocks. Each block has only one connection from the controller.
I have since bought numerous other locos and scratchbuilt some using motor blocks. The Bachmann Shay for example can pull over one amp at 12 volts. I have upgraded my power supplies to TWO 10 amp transformers, but it took several years to actually NEED them.
Last thing. Polish the rail heads with a scotchbrite pad. Remove tree sap (etc) with a little kerosene on a rag, then polish. You should not need sandpaper or anything more drastic. Clean your loco wheels and slider pickups with kero on a rag every now and then. Above all, enjoy and let us know how you get on.
Mick
Chief Operating Officer
Northern Timber Company - Mt Beenak
10 gauge wire is a lot of over kill. 16 gauge underground should be far more that you ever need. depending on how your layout is configured. if you running a loop or get the other end close to power supply. Connect both ends which will double the current carrying capability.
if you use split-jaw or other rail clamps. You can use put a ring connector from the wire to the screw of the clamp.
Conductive grease ????? I purchased some copper looking and claiming to be conductive grease. Then I tested it with a OHM meter. NO conductivity, infinity reading.
10 gauge wire is NOT overkill on my layout. I guess you missed the point, with no other information we don't know.
If you come by my place, we can swap out a feeder and you can show me how a 100 foot 16 gauge wire won't have severe voltage drop with my 10 amp train.
Yes, conductive grease is not conductive. It's called conductive because it retards oxidation, thus "keeping" conductivity. A misleading description in my mind.
There are indeed electrically conductive greases, but they are very expensive, often copper or silver bearing. Aristo makes a conductive grease, but it's water soluble and washes out.
I even took some loyal LGB employees to task about thier "conductive" grease... it's not electrically conductive, but has particles of graphite in it. Their answer was that under compression, the metal rail joiners "Crushed" the particles of graphite and made it conductive. That was rich. Try telling that story to a physicist or chemist.
Anyway, you NEED to know the things I asked above if you want to do it right. 16 gauge might be ok if it was a few trains, low current, low voltages, etc.
But, with no information, the only guarantee I would issue is back to 10 gauge, I know that will work in every situation.
Regards, Greg
Greg,
I work on battery powered equipment used by the disabled. This equipment is exposed to all kinds of weather by some of our clients. We use 'conductive' grease on all of our electrical connectors to keep oxidation to a minimum. My interpretation of 'conductive' is that it does not stop the electrical flow, as some other protective coatings are want to do. We use the graphite based greases and in my experience they do the job they advertise.
(You cannot measure the resistance value of water, but I still do not throw the hairdryer to my wife in the bath!)
Exactly what I stated, grease will keep oxidation down... it allows metal to metal contact to allow the current to flow. Graphite is nice since it keeps things slippery. Moly-based lithium greases are even better.
Yes, you can measure the resistance of water, try it on you megohm scale on a good meter. Only extremely pure water is an insulator. Virtually any contamination in water will ionize it, and you will have some conductivity. Typical stuff in water is calcium and magnesium, in the light metals area of the periodic table.. makes sense.
I tip my hat to you.
You are drawing 10 amps over 100 ft. yes #10g is needed.
Any good grease will retard oxidation.
The copper colored grease stated. "use to make better electrical contact." use to improve the electrical contact of plugs. Be careful not to get any in-between terminals could cause shorts.
OHM meter on "INF" measured "INF".
Yes more information would have helped with suggestions.
10 amps is just one train... it's amazing what current you can draw... but it's more important the voltage drop, which has so many factors, distance, types of joiners, gauge of wires, types of connectors, and at this level of current, yes, the distance between feeders is going to be affected by the fact that, in my case, stainless steel is less conductive than brass.
It's an extreme case, but you can run anything on my track. The reason I go to overkill in recommendations is I know it will work. I have a friend that used 18 gauge, and when he started running more locos, now too much voltage drop at the far end of the layout. Now it's too much work to run a second wire with all the track, structures, plants etc.
Does he wish he had used a heavier gauge? Yep.
These things are a one-time expense that can either give years of enjoyment or years of headaches.
I only draw about 6 amps, but instead of jumpers, I used 2 sets of 14 guage wire from the power source to opposite sides of my RR. Since I run a figure 8 with a 90 degree crossover, I just wired to 2 sides of the crossover, 90 degrees apart, not 180 degrees. Works great as my power source is only 8 feet from this crossover.
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