Stub Switches construction

[spikejones52002]

Has anyone have any experience building "STUB switches"?

I am about to attempt to build one.

I am thinking it will be easier that  shaving a rail point and the groove rail to except the point.

I am also thinking it will be easier to isolate electrically.

I am going to use a modified Aristo rail joiner. I will cut out a section of the joiner to catch and hold the moving rails. I need to make a crossover from inside track to outside track. The distance between inside to outside inner rails is 4 inches.

I am using Aristo 20 ft dia curve track. I need the 20 ft to accommodate my articulated engines. I attempted to match Aristo 10 ft dia. The engines kept derailing and shorting (electrically).

 

[captain perry]

I have not made stub swithces before but have made a standard point switch.  I am a member of the WW&F railway museum which has a three way stub switch leading to their yard and engine house.  It is pretty neat.

It certainly is simpler than milling down the rails especially if full scale.  In our scale a good sharp (new) course file will make fairly quick work of tapering the points if you clamp them in a vise and go at it with an atheletic mind set.

Remember that the real railroads changed to point switches for a reason.  your engines will end up on the ties if the the switch is not aligned correctly and of course if it is set for the wrong track.

 

--Eric

[Mt Beenak]

G'day Spike,

I hand laid all my track inside the garage and used LGB R3 outside.  I started building stub switches and built a pair as a crossover.  I tried to power them using Tortoise switch motors, but I found them too heavy, even after I fine tuned them time and time again.  I gave up and built the other ten switches as regular switches, with point blades.  These are all powered and work fine.  I eventually used manual mechanisms to operate my stub switches.  I also find that they cause derailments, as Cap'n Perry says, whereas the point blades allow the the wheels to slip through, or hop over.

You may have more luck, or be a better builder.  Good luck and let us know how you get on.  Oh, and send pictures.

 

[PJM20]

If you do make a stub switch, can you make a thread on how to build it, since your other how to threads are quite informative and as you said before; it may be easier to make than a switch with a point. Thank you.  - Peter

[spikejones52002]

I have just completed 90% of the build. I hand laid and spiked all rails.

I seen where I could have a problem at the cross over points. I laid sections of guard rails. I just trimmed the rail stub ends to match.

I also drilled and taped the ends for the Aristo rail joiners that will support and limit the traveling rails.

My only means of cutting into the rails for the cross over (frogs) is with Dremal tool, VERY crude.

if this works (SOME what). I will attempt to use Aristo's sections and their ties. I will interlace the curve with the straight.

Yes I know railroads do not use STUBS any more. I do not (maybe yet) see a disadvantage.

I have been taken photos.

I think it is a very basic build. I am not sure what I need to show.

I would like to receive questions after I post to know what needs to be clarified.

My biggest problem is spiking the rails.

This build lite the light bulb as to why my 10 ft dia Aristo cross overs cause derailments.

I did not want to work with very short sections of rail. I cut the short curve rails longer and the long curve rails shorter.

This meant that the transiston of the curves are not at the same place. The track gauge changes.

I have not had the time to make measurements to verify if this is a correct assumption.

I build the stubs curves to change direction at the center point.

The second problem I have had building is my two cats. When ever I attempt to do any work. My cats come out of nowhere plop themselves down in front of me.

I was attempting to slip a rail back into place. I could not see why it would not fit anymore. I looked back and my cat was pulling back on the other end.

[spikejones52002]

Could you post photos of the 3 way stub.

I am building with no knowledge.

I am just using logic of what I think a stub switch should be build like.

[Narrowgauge]

Spike,

 

Do a Google search for 'The Civil Engineers Pocket Book'.  It is a downloadable PDF and has some great railroading information in it. I believe (without searching) it contains some information on stub switches.

 

Bob C.

[captain perry]

stubbswitch

I have not added photos before...hope this works. 

I had one photo of the stub switch which shows the cross overs but not the stubbs. I do not seem to have any photos of the stubb end at this point...I'll look through my archives.

The WW&F uses this switch only for slow speed operations.  it is not on the main line.

[captain perry]

try again with the photohttp

[captain perry]

here is a photo of the switch looking from the other direction  (cropped from a larger view) 

All six stubs are are spiked firmly in place.  these are where the "points" usually are on a standard switch.

the two moving stubs are controlled using the switch stand on the left which has three positions.  the handle folds down into a rack with notches to hold it securely in each position.  you can see a little bend in these rails as they blend from the mainline switch by the passenger car to thye right most track behind the caboose.

this switch was made by volunteers at the WW&F railway museum  http;//www.wwfry.org  I helped make a standard switch on the main line this fall...even for a two foot gauge track and with all the parts at hand it is heavy work!

[JamesP]

I love the three way stub switch, and let's face it... two foot gauge steamers are just too neat!  One of these days I have to make a pilgrimage up to the WW&F.

But back to the subject at hand... I have never built a stub switch in "G" scale, but I originally built my 12" gauge railroad with stubs for the same reason that was mentioned - I didn't have to cut, grind or fabricate special points.  However, I have now converted all of the original stub switches to point switches.  There are several reasons that I did this, none of which might apply to the OP's situation.

First, by using springs on a regular point type switch, there isn't any damage or derailment if I accidentally run through a switch set against me.  In fact, I have certain switches with carefully adjusted the springs and properly reinforced points that are designated as spring switches.  Run through a stub that is set against you and the flanges will be cutting grooves in the ties.  Not a big deal on a garden railroad, but a very big deal with a 1500 lb steamer.

Second, the stub switches are more prone to problems with rail expansion.  The first switches I built would bind up as the points expanded into the other rails on hot days.  I was able to solve this by building a frame out of 2x4's and screwing all of the switch ties to it - the frame is hidden under the ballast.  I then securely fastened the rails to the ties on both sides of the points and used very generous expansion joints on all rails either side of the switch.  All the joints on my railroad allow for expansion, but the rails can still creep from summer to winter to summer.  The point type switches don't have these problems since the points can't bind on the ends and the stock rails are continuous through the switch.

Finally, the stubs seem to have a lot more problems in the winter with snow and ice buildup.  I guess it's because a regular switch has the throwbar holding the points vertically on the moveable end since it is captured by the stock rails.  A stub switch doesn't have anything to keep the stubs from rising up as snow gets packed into ice when you throw it.  The regular switch points wipe the snow out of the way or pack it next to the stock rail where you have to remove it to throw the switch.  The stubs start riding on top of the snow and ice, eventually climbing up enough that a flange can escape over the top of the other rail at the end of it, or the stub misses the stop and doesn't line up... either way causing a derailment if not caught in time.  But let's face it, railroading in inclement weather can be a challenge no matter what type of switch you use... YMMV.

Anyway, the only difference between building a point type switch and a stub is just the need to experiment with the distance to what I call the "hinge point" - the last tie that the stubs are spiked to so they will flex to the proper angle.  When thrown to the diverging route, the stub should line up straight where it butts up against the other rails... and a kink is inviting a derailment.  Other than that, remember that gauge, back-to-back at the frog and flange clearance is all critical to smooth operation on any switch.

Assuming you don't run in the snow and ice, take care to avoid rail expansion problems and don't mind a derailment if you run through a switch, the stubs will work fine for you.  They certainly give a vintage look to a railroad!

 - James

[spikejones52002]

My hat is off to the people who designed and built the 3 way stub.

That is a real accomplishment.

[Mt Beenak]

The WW&F 3 way stub is at one end of the quality spectrum.  Here is a view from the other end.

This one was at the New Federal Mill, a sawmill near Warburton, a bush town east of Melbourne.

(Usual credits to "Mountains of Ash", by Mike McCarthy, published by LRRSA)