I bought a 3 Truck Shay at the NGRC. I also bought a battery (18 volt Nimh), an AirWire G2 decoder and a switch harness. I have a Phoenix 2K2 sound system as well. I've done a couple conversions in the past but man is there a pile of wires in this thing. Any hints on where to put boards etc?
Rex
Rex in Pinetop Any hints on where to put boards etc?… Rex
You could always put the boards in a sandwich-bag and bury them under a bridge, call UPS and tell them to deliver the Shay to Tom. Then set back and relax for a while, a long while, a very long while.
Tom Trigg
Sorry, Rex, I have no experience with the 3-truck Shay, but for a Bachmann 2-truck shay the only thing I could squeeze into the tender area was the speaker. Everything else, including the AirWire receiver and Phoenix sound system went into a trailing boxcar.
This necessitated a lot of wires going from the boxcar to the loco, so I used a 7-pin DIN socket and cable.
Sometimes there's just no room in even a G-scale model for the batteries, decoder, sound system, and speaker.
The water bunker is fairly large and already set up for the speaker so I think I can use the space there for the speaker, sound board, and battery. Not sure where I'll squeeze in the decoder. Did you remove the wheel power pickups or did you just clip the wires?
Progress report - The speaker is in. The 2K2 sound board is in. The volumn switch, the programing socket, and the RCS BIK-U3 fused on-off switch are installed. I put the battery on a logging car along with the battery charging jack. I used an airplane servo extension cord to connect the the charge port to the BIK-U3, Next step is to tear out the Bachmann board and wire in the Airwire G2 decoder.
Question - Do I need to remove the power pickups from the 3 trucks or can I just disconnect them? Also CVP recommends replacing the motor wiring rather than using what's already there. Anyone have any experience using the Bachmann wiring?
Thanks,
Hello Rex.How are you connecting the charger to the charge jack?The normal 2.5 mm x 5 mm jack is actually a SPDT switch that has internal connection when the charge plug is removed.If you have connected the three wires to the RBG terminals on BIK-U3 you will have to add a jumper plug, either at the BIK-US terminals or at the end of the servo cable, to make a continuous circuit for the ground (-). Otherwise the system will not get any power. Also I do not recommend using a regular servo lead as it is not designed to carry the amount of current the loco can draw. You would be advised to use a heavy duty servo cable instead.
Best wishes,Tony Walsham (Remote Control Systems) http://www.rcs-rc.comModern technology. Old fashioned reliability.
In my installation the volume control switch wasn't necessary because you can control the volume with the AirWire receiver functions 7 and 8. I also didn't include a programming socket because that can also be done through the AirWire if necessary.
I agree with Tony's comment about the servo extension wire not being heavy enough to handle the current load. The Phoenix 2K2 can draw significant amperage itself if you have the volume turned up.
I used the servo connector for the charge jack's red, black, and grey wires. Those wires are all the same gauge. Yes Tony I discovered (by calling Johnathan at Electric Model Works) that the BIK won't work without the charge jack hooked up.
I used a 14 guage battery connector for the main battery power connector between the trail logging/battery car and the third truck of the Shay where I installed the switches. I plan to use another heavy duty battery connector to go between trucks 2 and 3 of the Shay for the battery wires. I used the Phoenix provided 20 gauge connector to go from the BIK output to the sound board.
What guage wire do I need going from the AirWire board to the 3 motor blocks? Backman appears to have used 20 guage wire. AirWire provides a shielded twisted 3 wire cable that appears to be heavier than the Bachmann motor wires.
what a dumb...ttrigg
Lets play nice - Peter
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Hi Rex.
The wires on the charge jack can handle 5-6 amps over that short a distance.
I think they are 24 gauge.
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the info on the charge jack wiring. I think I'm okay with the 12" servo extension as I had to cut off 5" of the charge jack wiring so I only added 7" total.
I'd like to use the existing Bachmann motor wires going to the three motors but CVP says I should replace them. That means tearing into each of the trucks and possibly breaking something in the process. Your advice?
tbar what a dumb...ttrigg
All of the "regulars" know that my various "UPS" comments are simply jealousy of their skills/product and are a form of complement in their endeavors. Over here on the large-scale side we have a tendency to poke fun at each other.
That's how I took the comment, also it had an emoticon, which is sort of "forum insurance" that people know things are being joked about.
Greg
Visit my site: http://www.elmassian.com - lots of tips on locos, rolling stock and more.
Click here for Greg's web site
It's just a joke. Tom usually gets to everyone, but I think I beat him to Mik - Peter
Tom,
No problem. Right now the Shay is total inop with wires everywhere. Any ideas on which wire to hook up to where?
This is where you earn your wings. You need to get a meter out, and trace out the wires...
Start by finding the motor leads. You should be able to trace them physically. you can hook a low dc voltage to them to verify you have the motor leads.
After that you can test just the motor part. Next you will want to find the headlight.
Is there a wiring diagram on the Bachmann site?
Rex in Pinetop Tom, No problem. Right now the Shay is total inop with wires everywhere. Any ideas on which wire to hook up to where? Rex
Rex: You of all people should know better than to ask me how to hook something up. Remember I’m the King of the Analog Dinosaurs. I even have problems putting the engineer in the cab (if he comes in the box with the engine.) I will assume that you are asking some one else that question. Have fun my friend.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/G824X-2.PDF
ttriggRemember I’m the King of the Analog Dinosaurs.
I have done only one three truck Shay. I have done a couple of dozen of two truck Shays. I have never replaced any of the Shay wiring. AS far as I know none have ever failed.
Maybe I have been just lucky.
Be careful of the chuff timer wiring. They have been know to fail. I'd make certain that the solder joints inside the cylinders are firmly attached.
Greg,
There is so much kidding going on that I guess no one could tell I was also joking with Tom.
Of course I have the wiring diagrams and yes I tagged each and every wire before I cut them off the Bachmann board. I've bundeled them by truck and lighting groups so that I know which wires go to the motors and which ones come off the pickups and which wires go to which LED PCB. CVP instructions suggest (in general) to replace all motor wiring with their twisted shielded cable however this is easier said than done. Right now I have the Bachmann motor wires all coming to one location above the middle truck. My thought is to connect them to the AirWire PCB one at a time and check function before hooking them all up in parallel.
FYI I did follow your instructions from your website to wire up the 2K2 Phoenix sound board in the third truck. I see another post from you with a link. I'll take a look to see if that contains instructions on how to hook up the RC.
Sorry if I confused you all,
Whew!
Had me worried!
Progress Report -
1. The battery is installed on a trailing log car. Logs still to be cut to fit around the battery to hide it.
2. The charge jack is installed on the backend of the log car.
3. The on/off fused switch is installed through the top of the water bunker.
4. The speaker and sound board is installed in the water bunker.
5. The Bachmann wiring has been tagged and the main board has been removed. I decided to used the Bachmann wiring and just tie off the track pickups.
6. The decoder has been powered up and set to the throttle frequency.
7. Each truck in turn was connected to the decoder and bench tested for direction of travel.
8. All three trucks are now connected to the decoder and they all run in the same direction!
Next will be to power up the 2K2 sound system and then the LED lights. Once that's done it will be time to tame all the snakes and button/lube her up for the maiden run.
good to hear all is going well
Well I thought everything was going well.
I've got the lights working now - both the head light and the tail light work in the proper directions. The motors all run forward but don't run at all in reverse. Any ideas? My trouble shooting consisted of redoing my wiring to the motors testing each one individually. Result - each one still runs forward but not reverse. I tried resetting the decoder to factory settings but still no reverse to the motors.
I've emailed Jonathan Bliese and he is stumped. I've forwarded my issue to CVP but of course it's Saturday so I don't expect a response from them until Monday.
Any ideas to try would be appreciated.
Progress report (or lack thereof)
I suspect the brand new decoder board is bad. At least CVP had me send it back to them for testing. It wasn't something simple that wouldn't allow the throttle to reverse the motors. All that work to install the board and all I was able to do was run it around my layout once before tearing out the newly installed board... And now the wait.
Also I discovered (with Jim's help from Phoenix Sound Systems) that the Bachmann chuff system is bad as well. I couldn't get a speed/chuff signal to the board. I verified this with an ohm meter while running the motors (forward only in my case). The wiring should have shown open-closed-open etc but it only showed an extended short. I've got a call into Bachmann support so we'll see what they have too say.
While I'm waiting I'm going to rebuild the helix so that the Shay will fit through it. Believe it or not - the Shay is taller than the Connie which just barely goes through the helix. I made the helix to 1:24 size and then bought 2 1:20 size loco's. Not real smart.
Oh well,
Well I did warn you about the chuff timer. Most work OK. Some don't.
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