MTH Challenger Review.

[Anonymous]

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/SoundGk/MTH_Challenger_Tender.jpg
(MTH Clinchfield Prototype shown)

The Tender.

The photo's I have of the model and even that set of fantastic pictures at Nuremberg Toy Fair just do not do the detail justice. Simply stunning to say the least and fairly accurate as far as rivet counting is concerned. Lot of brass detail parts on the tender such as grab irons , steps , ladders and piping. Coal load is realistic but a bit shiny. Lettering is very crisp and the small cast plate is quite easily read though as expected writing is small. It simply states Common Standard Tender class 25-C-103. Marker lights are accurate and the reversing light is also correctly mounted and looks the part. Even has the auto stoker housing sticking part way out the front of the tender under the footplate. Moulded on detail is good and does not appear clunky or to thick. The detail on the lead truck and the centipede section of the tender is very well done although care would be needed in handling the tender. Some of the detail on those parts is very fine plastic and looks like it would break easily.

Wheels are a scale 1 and 11/16 to small over the treads. Wheels measure out at 1.247 inch over the tread Should be 1and 5/16 This is the correct size as fitted to the centipede tender which were 42 inch wheels
Gauge is all over the shop as well with the worst being 1.524 inch Best at 1.555 Back to back. Adjustment is not easy but careful tapping of the axle centre with a small brad hammer will be able to get them into gauge. Some slight wheel wobble was also evident with one axle and wheel set being fairly bad. Flange thickness is not semi fine scale but quite acceptable. The wheels are heavy and hard. Tender after lubricating the axles rolls extremely freely.
No way will this tender go thru a Outback #4 turnout or the C1600 Double curved turnout. The centipede section gets to much side load on it and there is a heap of side play on the centre axles as it is. Booklet says R3 curves minimum. It does negotiate a #6 turnout well.

The tender out of the box is quiet heavy and on opening the unit it was found that a lead weight was fitted to the floor of the tender by way of 3 small screws. A set of bathroom scales showed the tender to weigh 5 lb and the lead weight to be 2lb of that weight. In the case of this unit the weight had broken away from the floor by stripping the screws out of the plastic. Obviously it had been thrown about in transit. ( I would be interested if any one else had this problem.) The loose weight did some internal damage mainly to the speaker enclosure by breaking it loose as well but 5 minute epoxy fixed that. Plus it had damaged some wiring by pulling the plugs apart but the Tender body had no damage. Lucky? Could be!

There was a DVD disc with the tender and a complimentary DCS controller as well (which is totally useless to me) and a operators manual from hell. Plus a separate novel on the DCS system and it’s workings. Good nights worth of reading material to digest on the model in it's lubrication and tear down and reassembly. Aristocraft and USA Trains should take notice of the owners manual. Impressive. The parts book (which is on the net) has a complete exploded schematic of the tender and loco .
Measuring the tender with a Vernier and trusty drawings in hand the tender comes in at the correct length of 45’-6 ¼ “ in 1.32 scale with axle spacing being also accurate. Height is slightly of due to the ever so slightly to small wheels.
Overall I am pleased with the tender and when the engine part arrives (It is still stuck in Australian Customs) I will go over that as well and write what I think of it.

Grant

[Anonymous]

MTH Challenger Review Part 2

The engine arrived on Wednesday (A separate story in and of itself involving Aussie Customs) and after taking it out of the box I stood back for about 20 minutes just taking it in and touching this and that. Just admiring the whole thing. Again I was struck by the attention to detail with many parts made from brass and those parts that were moulded to the body, not clunky in any way The sheer size of it conveys the might and power of the prototype . Especially when with the tender attached, it took up the almost entire length of our, not small, dining room table.
Then I started looking in detail and noted the entire pilot section was cast metal. No flashing anywhere to be seen Cast detail on the pilot is crisp and clear right down to the cross hatching on the step plate in front of the smoke box door. In looking in the cab I noted the back head is very well appointed with the usual array of valves and gauges and such. There are also two figures seated in the engineman / fireman position in not unnatural pose . The cab windows on both sides slide open and shut. Lettering on the locomotive is crisp and clear and the U.P Herald on the Smoke box door is exceptionally so. As are the builders plates with all the writing clearly legible even if needing a magnifying glass to read it. There are the same concerns I conveyed in my review of the tender however. These detail parts are of a fine nature and as such convey the need for careful handling.
One annoying aspect was that both number boards were snapped of, as was the bell knocked out of its mount. (I have contacted MTH on this and they will be sending me replacement boards) I tried reglueing the broken part of the number boards. Unsuccessfully. Whatever the plastic is, it will not stick Selley’s 5 minute epoxy. After the other boards arrive I will experiment with some MEK and see what happens.

All the valve gear and side rods are metal and again are not clunky in anyway. The side rods I noted are mounted the same as the series 2 units. Not knuckle jointed as the series 1 units were but were jointed and mounted to the crank pins directly. The crossheads are finely detailed and mounted very solidly. I lubricated all the motion gear, as I felt it was a little dry. I use #7 clock oil on these parts. Very expensive oil but it does not dry out. And a tiny drop on the end of a cotton bud is all that is needed.

I noted the road number of the engine and its number coincides with the drawings I have of the Challenger series locomotives. This is a series 2 Challenger. All dimensions I have quoted later on are for the series 2 type.
In comparing this model with the many photo’s that abound of 3985 some minor detail parts are missing, most noticeable is a pipe that runs from the walkway on the left hand side of the boiler up to almost the stack shield. In the photo I have of 3976 this pipe is not there.

(Interesting aside here is the series 2 loco’s the Clinchfield purchased from the DRGW. DRGW had been given these by the War Board and they did not match the Baldwin built Challengers that the road already had. Clinchfield did not like the double stacks and converted them to single stacks as per the series one units they already had. Clinchfield thus became the only road apart from UP to own both series locos built by Alco.)


Now on to the nitty gritty.

Trailing truck wheels are 1.245. Under size again by the same amount as the tender wheels. Should be 1.5/16 This is correct for the wheels as fitted to the trailing truck which were 42 inch
Lead truck wheels measure out at 1.072 which is 34.’5/16” in 1:1 scale. Again undersize Prototype was fitted with 36 inch wheels .
Drivers are 2.033. This converts to 65 and 1/16th. Way undersize as this model was fitted with 69 inch drivers. Should read 2 and 5/32 inches.

Trailing truck axle centres are 2.000. This equates to 64 inches. Should be 64. so they are correct. Lead truck axle centres are 3.046 These are chronically out by a lot. They should measure 2.750.
Driver centres are 2.315. They should be 2.281 Drivers as fitted standard on axle centres were 73 inches apart
The rear axle to lead axle distance between each engine is 4.241 inches. Should be 4.031
The overall axle centres of each engine are 4.550. Should be 4.563. This I found interesting.
Rear engine axle to lead trailing truck axle centre is 3.085. Should be 3.000. This measurement was a approximation though as there is a little slop in the trailing truck locating centre. I would say this is close enough.
The height of the loco from railhead to the top of the stack shield (highest point) is again as in the case of the tender off by the height of the slightly undersize wheels

The hoses on the front pilot are mounted in the wrong slot such as the folding front coupler cannot swing out but a careful removal and repositioning of the hoses to the second slot in the pilot allows the coupler to operate properly. The coupler itself appears to be a dummy and I have been able to check and see if it will mate with a Kadee coupler. It does.

The sound system is amazing. Very rich tonal quality with a interesting array of sounds. The compressor thump is amazingly realistic. Personal taste found me wishing I could turn the voices off though (Yard Chatter). They got annoying. I was intrigued to hear the snifter valves operate just as the loco started to move and then go into the deep exhaust note. The mallet sound is very identifiable with a definite two sets of cylinders going in and out of phase.

One thing I did notice with this unit was a slight bind in the front engine. This was at extremely slow speed and as it has not been run in yet I hope that this goes away. Checking the quartering found no fault visible to the eye.

In summary I find the MTH Challenger a good representation of a fine locomotive. There are some issues of course but how far do you want to take the rivet counting. Especially for the money involved. I was very wary of the fact that what might have been delivered would be a Tin Plate, High Rail type of model. In fact what we have is a unit of the calibre of the MTH Premier line
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/soundgk/images/image5.jpg

I apologise for the lateness of this final part of the review but I really thought I had done it.

[Anonymous]

I own one of these too . I like it alot . Their are a couple of things however that are disapointing . First my USA GP38-2 easilly out pulls it . It seems that the rear set of drivers do all the work . I wonder if there is a way to measure how much of the total locomotive weight is carried on each set of drive wheels . My guess is that the rear carries most of the weight. Next watch out if you back a heavy train with this engine . Once I did and the drawbar somehow came off between the engine and tender and when I went forward the whole train was being yanked around by the electrical cord . Of cource this happened when the train was out of sight and I didn't notice the large gap . It probably went around the railroad a few times . At the time I was pulling all 6 of my USA streamliner cars at 10 pounds each . Now the sound cuts in and out and I lost both my marker lites and backup lite .Gotta send it back to MTH to repair the cord and socket . I really like the "proto 2.0 system however . Its a real must in my opinion . I like the record / playback function alot. You can record up to 90 minuites of operation and play it back once or loop it to continually run all day .All the bell , whistle , direction , speed ,etc. will be recorded and allowed to repeat itself . This is real nice when you have company and the railroad seems automated to stop at the station , etc. Anyway I really can't wait to get it back cuz it is really my favorite loco to play with . Just some thoughts on my engine.