live steam boilers

[teen steam fan]

I was planing on making a 1/3 scale live steam. I live in the wonderful state of Illinois and I was wondering if I should buy boilers or make them

[JamesP]

So, 1/3 scale live steam - of what locomotive?  Standard gauge or narrow gauge?  How big of a diameter boiler are we talking about?  I don't live in Illinois, but I have live steamer friends in that state that build their own boilers.  However, if you are talking about a 1/3 scale of a standard gauge locomotive, depending on the prototype that will be a massive boiler.  Even 1/3 scale of a 3' gauge locomotive will be pretty good size.  Not to discourage you, but it takes some specialized skills and equipment to build boilers, and in that size you are going beyond what would normally be considered a hobby boiler.  If you have the means (money) to have a boiler professionally built, that is certainly the way to go.  I believe that Illinois allows individuals to build non-code hobby boilers, but I don't know what their dividing line is.  In my home state of Missouri, it is 12" inside diameter of the barrel and a certain grate size.  If you exceed that, then the state inspector needs to be contacted, and they will usually want to see a code boiler.

If you would like, you can send me a PM and I would be happy to discuss the details with you.

Best of Luck!

 - James

[Jerry Barnes]

 

I I'd get some copies of Live Steam magazine and start doing some research. I would think
going with one of the established scales would be your best bet. You can get plans/castings/advice. I don't think 1/3 is an established scale. 

[JamesP]

1/3 of standard gauge is roughly 19" gauge, there is some out there, but it is pretty rare.  The prime example is the Swanton Pacific Railroad, take a look at http://sprr.calpoly.edu/ .  However, if we are talking 3' narrow gauge, 1/3rd scale would be 12" gauge - not as common as 7+ gauges, but not nearly as rare as 18" - 19" gauge.  However, most of the 12" gauge railroads are 1/5 scale standard gauge.  I do know of at least 3 different 12" gauge, 1/3rd scale narrow gauge engines.  An example of this size can be seen at http://www.folsomvalleyrailway.com/  - go the the history tab and take a look at "Cricket" to see the 4-4-0.

"Cricket" was built from an Ottaway 12" gauge chassis and boiler.  I am currently in the process of restoring an Ottaway myself, and the next phase - you guessed it - boiler construction!  This boiler has a 12" diameter barrel and is about 4' long.  Big enough that two men can't pick it up, you need a hoist to get it on the chassis.  But 1/3 scale standard gauge?  WOW.  I've seen a 1/3rd scale 4-8-4 up close, it was a massive machine.  The locomotive weighed in around 10 tons, so the boiler was probably close to 3 tons by itself.  That is some serious machinery, well beyond the capabilities of most individuals.  The materials alone for a boiler like that will cost a considerable amount of money, never mind the cost of a professional code boiler.  I don't want to discourage you, just want you to make a well-informed decision before starting a project of that magnitude.

I'll echo Jerry's advice - read up (Live Steam is a great resource), do some research, crunch some numbers and visit some railroads of the size you are considering. 

 - James

 

[cabbage]

 There IS a 1/3rd scale railway running in the UK. It is the RHDR

http://www.rhdr.org.uk/rhdr/home_flash.html

 regards

ralph
 

[teen steam fan]

european locomotives are more my thing. I was hoping on building a Caldonain 812 a LNER V2 and some other british mixed traffic.

[JamesP]

I'm not well versed on European locomotives, but I googled the Caldonian 812 and found out that it is a standard gauge 0-6-0 with 5' drivers, 18.5" x 26" cylinders that weighs in somewhere around 46 tons.  I could not find boiler dimensions, but in the picture it looked as if the boiler were a bit larger than the gauge, perhaps 60" diameter.  This means in 1/3rd scale you are looking at a 19" gauge locomotive with 20" diameter drivers, 6.167" x 8.667" cylinders and it will probably weigh in around 3700 pounds.  If the boiler is 60" diameter on the prototype, it will be 20" diameter on the model.  This is a very serious model locomotive!  The boiler will most certainly fall under the jurisdiction of the Illinois inspectors, since the limitations for model locomotives are:

(7) Steam boilers of a miniature model locomotive, boat, tractor, or stationary

engine constructed and maintained as a hobby and not for commercial use, that have an inside

diameter not exceeding 12 inches and a grate area not exceeding 1 1/2 square feet, provided they

are constantly attended while in operation and are equipped with a water level indicator, pressure

gauge, and a safety valve of adequate capacity.

I strongly suspect that on a boiler for a 1/3rd scale locomotive, the state inspector will want to see a professionally built, code boiler.  This will be an expensive item, although with the scope of this project, nothing about it will be cheap.  I don't know how deep your pockets are, but if you are looking to build this locomotive yourself, you might think about making it 7.5" gauge, or at least 12" gauge which will be about the biggest you can go and still build your own boiler.

If you want to see the Illinois boiler laws in their entirety, they can be found at: http://www.state.il.us/osfm/Boilers/BoilerWebpage.pdf - the model locomotive exemption is on page 7.  Now, I know you will also see the exemption for railway locomotive boilers, but you cannot claim that exemption unless you are under the FRA laws.

Again, I don't want to discourage jumping into the live steam hobby, but I do want you to be aware of what it takes to build an engine of this size.  The cost will be very high, and even if you plan on doing the work yourself, the machine shop equipment and material will still be expensive.

I suggest building a small live steam model of the locomotive first, and if you decide to build the 1/3rd scale later on, you can sell the small one and apply the proceeds to the big one.  The experience gained will be priceless.

Sincerely wishing you the best,

James

[teen steam fan]

I am jumping in when I have the land and the money