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Security Threat???

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Security Threat???
Posted by Drummer Creek on Friday, July 31, 2009 1:00 PM

Its been a while since I’ve been here, but would like to get this groups thoughts. I was recently approached by a local newspaper reporter that wanted to do a human interest story on my garden railroad. The dilemma I have is we live in a small community where pretty much everybody knows everybody. Our house is located in a subdivision and although we do not have any fences around our house most people, even some of my neighbors, don’t know I have a garden railroad because it blends in with the rest of the landscape so well. On one hand I want to get the word out about garden railroading and love to have kids and adults alike come “play”  but on the other I don’t want people to know I have one for security reasons, especially in this economy and those needing to make a quick buck.

 

I know security and security systems have been discussed here before and I'm really not wanting to close in my yard and put security cameras every where. I  don't  leave anything like rolling stock or engines out over night just for that reason. I know some of you have very public displays. Is it worth the risk to get the word out?

 

Joe

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Drummer Creek Garden Railroad http://www.trainweb.org/DC
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Posted by gbbari on Friday, July 31, 2009 2:28 PM
Joe, I feel your pain. I live in a small subdivision on a 1/4 acre parcel with no fences, albeit some very tall cedars at the back of my yard and some nice mature wygelia bushes down one side. But, also lacking any fence, I have delayed putting a permanent layout in the backyard. I envy those with tall fences surrounding their yards; my driveway arrangement makes fencing the backyard very impractical without including a costly double-width power gate. Well, maybe when I hit the lottery.....

But back to your question - I must sadly admit that I would NOT go public in this day and age. Be very cautious who you invite over to see the layout; you should really know anyone who you permit on your property or get a reference from someone you know and trust. I do realize that severely limits the "get the word out" potential, but given the investment in this equipment, I am personally reluctant to have it lifted and pawned off to feed some junkie's habit.

My suggestion is to take any opportunity to invite elementary school-aged children's groups (Cub Scouts, church groups, etc.) who are accompanied by responsible adults - again, adults you either know firsthand or who are known by someone you trust. You may know of other types of kid's organizations in your area that probably have good decent kids and parents as members.

Just my 2 cents. But then I trend towards the cautious side....

Al

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Posted by altterrain on Friday, July 31, 2009 5:21 PM

 Thousands of garden railroaders have had open houses over the years and I very seldomly heard of any issues do to opening up their railroads to the public.

-Brian

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Posted by Capt Bob Johnson on Friday, July 31, 2009 5:29 PM

I agree with Brian and will add that if you can get some neighborhood kids involved in helping you do things around your layout, they will have a vested interest in preventing vandalism!    Youngsters can get up and down better than we old farts, and if you show them what you want, it will be done; maybe not to your standards, but done!     I can tell you that as soon a kids around here hear my trains whistle they start showing up!

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Posted by kstrong on Friday, July 31, 2009 9:47 PM

It's not something I'd worry about. My dad's railroad in suburban Washington DC has been on TV, even the front page of the Washington Post (not intended to brag, but just to give an idea of the exposure.) Perhaps it's just good luck, but the publicity has never been an issue. In my years of TV news, I've never come across anyone on whom we've done a personal interest story come back to us with any negative aftereffects. In most cases, the response is overwhelmingly positive.

 

True story--I had bought a used pick-up truck from a couple before I left home to go to college. They agreed to drive the truck over to our house. By coincidence, one of the local TV stations ran a story on the railroad that evening's 5pm newscast. They showed up with the truck, but insisted on getting a tour of the railroad before we did any paperwork. They had seen the story on the news, and said "hey, that's the guy who's buying our truck!"

 

So, enjoy the publicity.

 

Later,

 

K

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Posted by steamdonkey on Friday, July 31, 2009 10:37 PM
Wow. Congratulations! As long as Osama bin Ladeda doesn't find out, embrace your inner showman. You've built something way cool, that deserves to be shared, and you have a wonderful opportunity to show off your accomplishments and promote the hobby. Go for it! I am (de)fenceless. I worry more about clumsy bears than oafish lads. As for security, a motion-sensing light is probably plenty. Note another poster has a problem with the a**h**e neighbour from h***, but that's another problem entirely. Good luck!
With so many mistakes out there waiting to be made, why bother repeating them?
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Posted by g. gage on Saturday, August 1, 2009 1:16 AM

Hi Joe,

I can understand your concerns. We also live in a small community with no fences. However we’ve been members of two GRS for many years and have been open for meetings, three National Conventions, two regional conventions and will have an open house and host a meeting in August. We have never had any problems (deer excepted). In fact we only know of one garden railroad in hundreds that was vandalized and that was in Sacramento by some young teens. Oddly that railroad had never been publicized and was in a fenced backyard.

 

Still we have a bit of concern in the back of our minds, but I can assure you the positive that comes from displaying your railroad will over shadow any doubts.

 

Have fun, Rob  

 

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Posted by jhsimpson62 on Saturday, August 1, 2009 6:53 AM

Joe. As the many others who have responded, I live in subdivision with no fences. Have had the same oppertunity as you are contemplating, i.e. local newspaper article, and have had no problems. The article did not include any address and all inquries to the paper were forwarded to me to answer or not. My lot is open on both sides and fronts on a border road which is use quite heavely from where the train lot is visible. Have held numerous open houses and often during her walks thru the neighborhood my wife invites everyone she sees to "see the trains". Currently all the youngens are a tap small for helping, but I'm hoping to recruit some help as they grow a little.  I am now begining to think of having another bit done as a follow on since I was just starting when the first article was written. Jack

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Posted by EMPIRE II LINE on Saturday, August 1, 2009 7:18 AM

Say Joe,

I would say go for it, show what you've done. I live in a 600 lot plus mobile home park and campground in central Florida here, only minutes from Micky's front door, I have had people from all over the world stop by to take a look at times, and have yet to EVER have anything harmed or destroyed. My worst enemy has been a Regional Manager and some Cats....they seem to want to get to my fish, and do a little damage here and there at times....see it running at "Empire 2 Line" on You Tube. People really enjoy seeing what you have done, and most "Kids" seem to enjoy the trains.

Byron 

He Wore Arrow Shirts Too
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Posted by Capt Bob Johnson on Saturday, August 1, 2009 8:04 AM

There is another alternative if you're really all that worried!   Get some Invisable Fence (best thing since sliced bread) and a big dog; then put up a sign "Protected by Paws and Jaws Mobile Alarm System".

Now you can have the best of both worlds, put the dog in and do Open House, let the dog out and have protection!

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Posted by Drummer Creek on Saturday, August 1, 2009 11:33 AM

Thank you all for your responses and words of support. It looks as though several of you have the same concerns which makes me feel better and less paranoid but I was also very glad to see that many of you have gone public and not had any problems. Deep down I hoped you would all say go for it. So…I called her back and we will be doing something in September.

Thanks again!

Joe

 

Drummer Creek Garden Railroad http://www.trainweb.org/DC
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Posted by SoCalJimH on Saturday, August 1, 2009 3:00 PM

I have to agree with Capt. Bob's comment of 7/31/09 (although the 8/1/09 comment ain't bad either!)

The more you get the neighbors and the local kids involved the more they will start treating the layout as "local pride" and keep an eye on it.  I live in a So. Calif. older housing tract and I have 110 ft of track in the front yard- with most of it on very visable trestles.  I do keep the loco's and rolling stock in doors (I'm not that foolish!)   I always attract lookie-loo's when I'm working on the layout and especially on Sunday afternoons when I hook up a "candy car" to the 2-4-2T. 

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Posted by gardenengineer on Tuesday, August 4, 2009 7:29 PM

Joe-.

You could establish a "guest log" whenever you have visitors around to look at your layout.  If you get an email address you could fire them off a thanks for coming by note.  The actual reason for the log is in case anything is ever amiss you can provide the authorities with a list of people who you know were in your yard.  Good luck.

Peter

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Posted by Ray Dunakin on Friday, August 7, 2009 3:53 PM
That's something I've wondered about too. People keep telling me my layout should be on TV, but I'm leery of it so far. Vandalism is a concern of course but my biggest worry is bureaucratic hassles. I've seen and heard of too many cases where people get their hobbies or home businesses featured on TV or in the paper, and the next thing they know, some government twit is putting them through hell over some (real or imagined) violation of some obscure rule. Of course, my layout's a bit more of an engineering project than most. The typical trains-in-a-garden _probably_ wouldn't draw that kind of attention.
 Visit www.raydunakin.com to see pics of the rugged and rocky In-ko-pah Railroad!
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Media Publicity of your RR - Good or Problematic?
Posted by gbbari on Saturday, August 8, 2009 11:19 AM
Ray - good intuition about bureaucrats. For example, does everyone's local community allow un-permitted construction or grading in the backyard that may affect runoff/runoff direction? What about retaining walls, fences, sheds and structures? Proximity to property boundaries vs. required setbacks? How many of us have passed the site plans for the back yard railroad to the local permitting office to make sure we are not unknowingly violating some obscure regulation? I'd bet a lot of those reading this are thinking - "Hmmmm....of course not. I don't think I violated any rules, and why would I want to voluntarily bring my name into the limelight or focus of the local authorities... because I really don't know *all* the codes or laws nor exactly how the local gov't. might respond.... It's just smarter to stay low and out of their immediate sight." Well, this is exactly what may cause some to pause before jumping at widespread and uncontrolled publicity.

I know that a lot of the forum members who regularly post here are experienced and likely have an awareness of these issues and are confident they know how the local codes & regs. may or may not apply to their personal situations. But this is a forum with a large membership and a lot of readers here may not be familiar with all of this.

I think the vast majority of municipalities would likely not try to force a resident to remove their railroad... but we have recently witnessed one case in the northwest where they did do just that. Can you be sure you don't have one of those eager beaver ambitious personalities working in your local gov't. who, upon seeing your backyard fun on the TV, would try to "prove" themselves and see if he (or she) could find some reg. or code that you violated?
Al

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Posted by grandpopswalt on Saturday, August 8, 2009 12:47 PM

 Here's another thought related to the issue of "going public". One of our forum members had an incident a while back with the municipal tax department. Tangerine Jack had about $1700 added to the assessed value of his house in Virginia Beach, VA. because the RR was considered an improvement.

So maybe flying below the radar is indeed the way to go during these times when so many local governments are struggling to make ends meet.

Walt

 

(edited spelling)

"You get too soon old and too late smart" - Amish origin
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Posted by EMPIRE II LINE on Saturday, August 8, 2009 4:10 PM

Don't know as you all noticed my biggest problem mentioned in my earlier comment to this post.

A Regional Manager.....Well it all started with an older lady neighbor who wanted to start complaining that I was starting my railroad too soon of a day at times (The Prospectus of this Park says quiet hours are from 10:00pm to 7:00am daily) I never started before 8:00am....she has since croaked....however this Regional Manager has decided to take a personal vandetta towards me now....

Purpose of mentioning this is that it lead to her sicking the County Code Enforcement Dept. on me...... They did require me to put in an RPZ back flow preventor valve, because of the ponds, and the inspector did at least bring to my attention that the carport installers had left a support kicker brace out of the roof supports on my new carport......Got that all fixed....however.... they said there are no other types of regulations governing the construction of a "Toy Train" in a yard in this County.....Case Closed........... It did end up costing this place a good bit though, when I too than filed a complaint against this place for a number of clearly visible violations.

So.... I don't have any Government Jurisdictional problems here where I live.....only those from the management of this park that I live in........that will all be taken care of though on another day and maybe in a Courtroom too, for that matter...... She's like the PITT that won't let go....

Byron       

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Posted by Fat Man on Tuesday, September 1, 2009 8:25 PM

Hello All: Like Rob I live in a small mountian town just over over the hill from Rob. The only thing I wory about is the bear. I know all the kids in town good and bad. plus I have a two thousand foot climb in back of the house and a one hundred foot climb from the road. Most crocks are lazy and my lay out is not worth the effort.

Rob when are you going to have another event over your way?

Thanks Fats

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Posted by tangerine-jack on Saturday, September 5, 2009 7:24 PM

I would avoid any publicity without a dog or fence, it's just too tempting a target for thieves or vandals.

 i've had issues with the city zoning department.  It seems where I live you need a permit to put up an arbor or trellis, and an outdoor railroad is considered an "amusement park ride" as there is no legal distinction between a train you can ride in and one you can't.  And as Walt pointed out, the tax man came calling about my "improvements"  I think the total was 17K tax value assesment for what was at the time about a $600 railroad.  I ended up beating it, but it was a lot of work.   In this day of municipal economic shortfalls, the tax extortioner will be looking under every rock for revenue.

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by DennisB on Sunday, September 6, 2009 8:16 AM

I have had a public display for 6 years now. At my first home it sat in the front yard close to the house. Since moving, it now sits at the end of the carport in  the backyard. I have been featured in the paper and radio. It is this public knowledge that creates its own security. I have moved to  a small city of about 60,000 people. I have had many visitors over the last 3 years. Nothing has gone missing or broken. I know of many club members that also keep their layout in plain sight. You really have nothing to fear. You may even become popoular. Regards, Dennis. 

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Posted by Rex in Pinetop on Thursday, September 10, 2009 3:58 PM

We have a front yard layout on a popular corner lot.  We have visitors everyday.  Before I started I got permission from our HOA giving them preliminary plans for the "landscaping".  The local police took an interest and stop by on their daily rounds to see how we're doing.  I'm battery powered so all I have to do is take the engine/tender out, hook up to a consist, and have a go.  I do bring in my buildings for the winter.  The only damage so far has been from the snow plows dumping excess on the tracks.  The first year they graded a pile of rocks onto my upper main line resulting in some bent track.  Last year I lost some trees due to a very cold and dry season.  I couldn't water because of the ice.

We've been away for the last three weeks visiting Russia so we're sort of anxious to get back up to the mountains and run the trains some more before the snow comes.  It's hot here in the desert too.  I believe the weather man said we've had 110 days this year over the 100 degree mark.

I too worried about kids vandalizing but now that we've been running for a couple of years with the kids involved there is a lot less worry.  The kids seem to take care of it and yes I do give them the throttles and away they go.  Some of the older kids can even put trains back on the track after derailments from squirrel strewn pinecones!

Rex

 

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