1:20.3 & 1:22.5 scale compatability

[ONEHAGGIS]

HI Y'ALL,  

IS IT POSSIBLE TO RUN BOTH 1:20.3 & 1:22.5 SCALES TOGETHER WITHOUT LOOKING WEIRD? OR IS THERE TOO MUCH OF A DIFFERANCE? HAS ANYONE DONE IT BEFORE? WHAT IS YOUR OPINIONS ON THE MATTER?

THANX.

MARK.

[cacole]

They run together okay as far as coupler compatibility is concerned, but they look out of place together.  Something akin to having a true HO scale automobile and a Hot Wheels, which is S scale, side by side on a layout if you've ever seen those two together.  Or an N scale automobile and a Tootsie Toy, if you know what one of them is.

 

[ttrigg]

Mark:

If you are a rivet counter, then they will look atrocious alongside each other. On the other hand; if you use a Gumi (rubber) ruler (like myself) they go together rather well.

[grandpopswalt]

 Mark,

A correctly scaled 1:20.3 boxcar compared to a correctly scaled 1:22.5 boxcar is considerably larger. Remenmber that the car will not only be longer, but will also be taller and wider The difference is very apparent.

You can always just say that in real life that boxcar was actually that much bigger than other boxcars, and you'd probably be able to find a prototype somewhere to back it up. But, it will be noticeably larger and it will probably need to be explained. Remember that there is a difference between something being "not prototypical" and something being out of scale.

On the other hand, if you truly don't care at all about scale and proportion and those differences don't bother you, then by all means run them together. You can even throw in some 1:29 and 1:24 stuff. I'm not a rivet-counter, far from it, but I am bothered by the sight of a 1:18 scale auto next to a 1:22.5 loco or a 1:24 scale figure next to a 1:20.3 freight car, "it just ain't right".

Walt

[ONEHAGGIS]

cacole

Or an N scale automobile and a Tootsie Toy, if you know what one of them is.

 

Is that kinda like a Tootsie Roll??

Out of curiosity, what is a Tootsie  Toy?

.

Mark.

[ONEHAGGIS]

grandpopswalt

A correctly scaled 1:20.3 boxcar compared to a correctly scaled 1:22.5 boxcar is considerably larger. Remenmber that the car will not only be longer, but will also be taller and wider The difference is very apparent.

grandpopswalt

On the other hand, if you truly don't care at all about scale and proportion and those differences don't bother you, then by all means run them together.

 

grandpopswalt

"it just ain't right".

 

Your right. The reason I asked was that I was trying to compare LGB metre gauge to American style three foot gauge. I guess I will stick with 1:22.5 scale.

.

Mark.

[GearDrivenSteam]

Aren't there different size boxcars in reality? People? Cars? Everyfrikkinthing?  I'd run it and be happy.

[Independent Operator]

GearDrivenSteam

Aren't there different size boxcars in reality? People? Cars? Everyfrikkinthing?  I'd run it and be happy.

 I'm with you.  My railroad runs most of the scales and I use conversion cars when needed to cheat the different couplers.  I read here before something about the G Gauge 10 foot rule.  You have to stand at least 10 feet away from it all to see it right.  I like the 15 foot rule better.

 

[cacole]

ONEHAGGIS

Is that kinda like a Tootsie Roll??

Out of curiosity, what is a Tootsie  Toy?

.

Mark.

 

I don't know for sure if the name Tootsie Toy had anything to do with Tootsie Rolls, but they were smaller than N scale cast metal vehicles with no detail, no window glass, and no interiors -- just shells painted different colors with wire for axles and rubber tires.  They probably aren't made any more, what with the Consumer Protection Police and their small, easily swallowed size.

 

[Neiler]

I also run both scales together but not generally in the same train. You are right in that sizes of boxcars, engines, etc came in all diferent sizes depending on your era. More contemporary equipment is pretty standardized.

Long term I'm changing small details to make everything look more 1:20.3 such as brakewheels, standard coupler heights, etc. I saw where Kevin Strong actually glued new sides on an older type boxcar to make it as wide as his other equipment. I also noted that the roof overhand on his 1:20.3 Bachmann car was TOO wide for the EBT and had to be narrowed. Hardly rivet counting but making it look consistent.

All my bridges, tunnels, track radius, and clearances are for larger equipment (obviously) but starting sooner than later seemed like a good idea.

Neil

[kstrong]

You're only going to run into visual problems where things with doors are concerned. Things like the Bachmann and LGB passenger cars and cabooses will be too small when compared to the 1:20 locos. Your passengers and brakemen will be bumping their heads every time they have to go through the door. Here are two shots comparing a 1:20 passenger car to the smaller 1:22.5 passenger car.

Freight equipment is far more forgiving when it comes to scale. Freight cars "grew" in size over the decades of the narrow gauge movement, and some of the early stuff (c. 1870s/1880s) was quite small compared to the latter stuff built around 1900. As such, much of the 1:22 equipment on the market will work well for the older narrow gauge equipment,often with little to no modification. A few examples:

This is a modified Delton (now Aristo-Craft Classics) wood hopper. It scales out to around 7' by 23' when measured in 1:20.3, which is almost spot on for a 12-ton wood hopper built by Billmeyer and Smalls up through 1900.

This photo shows a c. 1910 boxcar (on left) compared to a c. 1870s boxcar (on right). The boxcar on the left is the same size as a Bachmann 1:20 box car, while the one on the right is the same size as a Bachmann 1:22.5 boxcar. It would not be unusual to see both cars mixed in a train up through the 1910s.

Now, if you're modeling the 30s - 50s era on a "major" narrow gauge line similar to the D&RGW, EBT, or Tweetsie, then you're not going to find the old, small equipment still in service. Generally speaking, it got replaced in the 1910s. If you're modeling a more backwater narrow gauge line in the 20s and 30s, then such small rolling stock might still be in use. It may or may not look a bit bedraggled, but if it could make the railroad money without falling apart, then why not?

I'll close with this shot to further muddy the waters. All three locos are 1:20.3.

Later,

K

[Neiler]

Very clearly stated Kevin. The side-by-side examples clearly demonstrate why they might not look right in the same train. Of course this is a hobby.  Your modeling of the EBT is inspiring. My Umauma Railway has a mishmash of Northwest Narrow Gauge, Bachman, AMS, and scratch-built cars but I consider my railroad real in the sense that, since there was no prototype, these manufactures are as bonified as Carter Brother's for my use.

Mind you I'm the first to critisize Garden Railways for no longer considering it a "con" to be a correct scale/gauge combination. The Tomar lamps are a good recent example. Are there really people still building to 1:24? Let's continue to pressue manufactures to produce in a common scale. Remember O guage? Q? O scale? Proto scales? Don't we ever learn?

N

[Mr_Ash]

My Bachmann K27 is the only thing I have in 1:20 all my stuff is LGB or Bachmann 1:22

I run my K27 with LGB rollingstock the cars arnt quite as long as the bachmann 1:22 stuff but they are slightly wider and taller so they look a little better  

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v709/FordCVP71/?action=view&current=K27464-1.flv

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v709/FordCVP71/?action=view&current=4642-1.flv 

 http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v709/FordCVP71/?action=view&current=4641-1.flv

last one is with all bachmann 1:22 car's, doesnt look to bad from a distance

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v709/FordCVP71/?action=view&current=464freight.flv

 Oh yeah USA trains has 1:22 Boxcar's, Reefer's & Cabeese thats where the caboose in the video came from

[GearDrivenSteam]

Great explanation, Kevin. Thanks !

[ONEHAGGIS]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

The photos really helped alot on showing me the differance on sizes.

kstrong

You're only going to run into visual problems where things with doors are concerned. Things like the Bachmann and LGB passenger cars and cabooses will be too small when compared to the 1:20 locos. Your passengers and brakemen will be bumping their heads every time they have to go through the door. Here are two shots comparing a 1:20 passenger car to the smaller 1:22.5 passenger car.

Thanks once again.

Mark.

[TheJoat]

 It's possible, but it sure didn't look right to me.

 

That's a 1:20 boxcar on the right.  A 1:22.5 next to it.   I ended up getting rid of it;  I really didn't like the look.

[DMUinCT]

Said it before ! !

New Haven Railroad Photo, 1943

[kstrong]

I really didn't like the look.

Aesthetics definitely comes into play, though I guarantee you the average model railroader's aesthetic sense would be violently offended by many prototype railroad practices. Bruce's photo illustrates the ends of the spectrum, though. The steel box car on the right is a model of an East Broad Top box car, which was among the largest 3' gauge gauge box car built. (8' wide, 33' long, 11' 6" tall) The car next to it scales out to 6' 8" wide, 25' long, and 9' 6" tall. In standard gauge parlance, that would be akin to putting a 40' box car from the 1940s next to one of today's modern hi-cube box cars.

Incidentally, if you're re at all interested in narrow gauge freight cars, you owe it to yourself to get a copy of Robert Sloan's A Century + Ten - D&RGW Narrow Gauge Freight Cars 1871 - 1981. Vance Bass reviewed it in the current (Feb '09) issue, so you can get ordering info from the product review page here.

Later,

K

[bigboy]

I only have Spectrum narrow gauge steam powered engines from Bachmann which are scaled at 1:20.3. However, I use Bachmann's Big Hauler freight and passenger cars which are scalled at 1:22.5. All the early Bachmann Big Hauler equipment was scaled at 1:22.5 to be compatiable with LGB. I can't justify the cost of Bachmann's new Spectrum freight cars just to upgrade to the larger scale. Before I purchase a new car I compare it to size with my existing equipment. There are a lot of 1:22.5 equipment from other manufacturers that can be mixed with the Bachmann Big Hauler cars and look just fine. I wouldn't let it bother you unless you are trying to do fine scale modeling.

 

Big John 

[oldeazy]

I have 2 Bachmann NorthStar & Southern train sets. The engines have metal side rods and lots of nice detail, I also have some Bachmann Big Hauler frieght and pass. cars. Please what scale do I have ? Thanks Ron. Belson

 

 

[vsmith]

oldeazy

I have 2 Bachmann NorthStar & Southern train sets. The engines have metal side rods and lots of nice detail, I also have some Bachmann Big Hauler frieght and pass. cars. Please what scale do I have ? Thanks Ron. Belson

Those engines and cars are in the Big Hauler line and are 1/22.5. If you have the metal siderods your lucky, you got an Anniversery Edition, or oft called "Annie", their best Big Hauler to date. Equal to their Spectrum line.

[oldeazy]

Thanks for the info. They both have operating fire box doors, could I possibly wire them for fire box glow ? Thanks again Ron Belson

[vsmith]

Anything is possible, but I've not done it, so hopefully someone else can help there..

[SNOWSHOE]

 I mix 1:22 stuff with 1;24 But rather then do it with the same, like  1:22 box car with a 1:24 boxcar.  I will do a 1:22 box with a 1:24 flatcar.  Then it does not look as bad.  I use the 1:24 HWL cars because you cant beat the price.  Same is for the Big hauler cars they are less expensive then the 1:20.